Substitution question

[Mack10]

Question from a first-year officiall: A is winning by 1 pt with about 45 seconds left, and has a 4th down deep in their own territory. Punt team runs on to the field, but nobody comes off and A now has 13-14 people just standing around on the field after the ready has been given. Maybe 7 in the huddle, and an equal number between the huddle and the numbers. The intent seems to be to run down the clock and take a delay of game before punting.

Does this become a subsitution infraction sometime before the 25 seconds is up?

[wisref2]

That's a good one. My thought - it's a substitution infraction (replaced players did not leave the field immediately). Also, it appears to be an abuse of the timing rule, so the referee has the power to start the clock on the snap rather than on the ready for play.

[Mack10]

My thought was to give them 3-5 secs for replaced players to leave field, and then throw the flag. But coach claimed extra kids who were on the field weren't substitutes yet because they didn't enter huddle or notify anyone that they were to come out. They just ran on the field and stood there.

Abuse of timing rule doesn't offer B much relief, since A has burned off 25 (or more) seconds. If A only had 11 on the field, I suppose they could have legally waited until the 25 seconds was almost up, then called a time-out, or waited a couple more seconds and get a DOG.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mack10

My thought was to give them 3-5 secs for replaced players to leave field, and then throw the flag. But coach claimed extra kids who were on the field weren't substitutes yet because they didn't enter huddle or notify anyone that they were to come out. They just ran on the field and stood there.

Abuse of timing rule doesn't offer B much relief, since A has burned off 25 (or more) seconds. If A only had 11 on the field, I suppose they could have legally waited until the 25 seconds was almost up, then called a time-out, or waited a couple more seconds and get a DOG.

It's IS once they get out there and fail to get anyone off in their place. Rule is pretty clear.

How did A burn off any more than the 25 that they could have burned off in any other normal manner?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Mack10

...But coach claimed extra kids who were on the field weren't substitutes yet because they didn't enter huddle or notify anyone that they were to come out. They just ran on the field and stood there.

REPLY: He really doesn't have a leg to stand on there, but if you wanted to play with him, you could have asked if he'd rather you penalize him for a violation of NF 9-8-1i ("Being on the field except as a substitute or replaced player.")

[Mack10]

Thanks! They didn't actually burn off more than 25 secs. I "eventually" threw the ill sub flag and killed the clock ... but even there I probably gave them 7-8 secs to get extras off, instead of the "3-5" seconds the book calls for ... and probably a couple more had passed before I was sure I had more than 11.

So, maybe they burned 10, when if they 11 men on the field, they could have burned 24.

What I meant by "25 or more" was that if I don't throwthe substitution flag, I can see the BJ (in the confusion) maybe delaying a sec or two before he flags the DOG. That's assuming the BJ was a s confused as me.

[booker227]

A substituted for player must leave the field immediately. Flag it for substitution infraction as soon as possible, stop the clock, send them back five yards and start the clock on the snap.