What if the Defense is Verbal During Cadence...???

[ddoom]

I am looking for other officials opinions on this scenario...

#1. All A players are in set positon, but quarterback is not under center or in his cadence. Linebacker B1 yells "Shift" and the defensive line shifts and then the offensive line false starts. The goal and purpose of the verbal defensive call is to get the defense into a goal-line type defensive package at the last possible moment before the snap.

#2. Same scenario, but the quarterback is under center in his cadence?

What are your rulings for #1 & for #2?

[buckrog64]

This sounds like one of those 'need to be there' scenarios....I would penalize A in both cases, but I would remind B of the rule in case I thought he had ulterior motives.

[Snake~eyes]

I've got nothing against B, he's using legitimate playcall to move his line and its not similar to "hutt"

[ddoom]

If in the official's judgement the yelling of "shift" by B made the offensive linemen false start, would you rule false start on the offense or is it unsportsmanlike conduct by B (rule 9.5.1D)???

[DJ_NV]

I agree--I've got nothing. Don't go looking for this type of foul. There will be no question in your mind when you have it.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Agree...a legitimate use of defensive signals by B. A's foul.

[JRutledge]

The defense has the right to call out signals and plays. This is completely legal and I would have nothing. The offense needs to pay attention to their QB and not what the defense is calling.

Peace

[ddoom]

OK...I'm good with all of your explanations and I do agree, but can someone please give me an example of a violation that relates to Rule 9.5.1D in NF? I would like to look at it from that perspective to ease my mind.

Thanks in Advance!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by ddoom

OK...I'm good with all of your explanations and I do agree, but can someone please give me an example of a violation that relates to Rule 9.5.1D in NF? I would like to look at it from that perspective to ease my mind.

Thanks in Advance!

Defense yelling Down! Or SET! Or worst... HUTT! or GO!

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Defense yelling Down! Or SET! Or worst... HUTT! or GO!

REPLY: And I've experienced it a few times in my career.

[Warrenkicker]

We had a linebacker in a JV game bark at the offense while trying to not move. It was obvious to us that he was trying to get the offense to jump. Needless to say we nailed him quickly.

[cougar729]

Originally Posted by ddoom

I am looking for other officials opinions on this scenario...

#1. All A players are in set positon, but quarterback is not under center or in his cadence. Linebacker B1 yells "Shift" and the defensive line shifts and then the offensive line false starts. The goal and purpose of the verbal defensive call is to get the defense into a goal-line type defensive package at the last possible moment before the snap.

[/B]

I heard about this type of play with a Junior High game. defense (not knowingly) yells shift to get into a new formation, causes the offensive line to jump. No foul.

Defense again yells shift, offensive line jumps... it was clear to the official working that now the defense has leanred by doing this they are getting a false start on the offense, officials say no more, next time its a foul.

[RoyGardner]

I agree with cougar729 in that the timing and "intent" of what the defense is doing is more important that the specific words. When it becomes obvious that the timing of B's signals is intended to get A to respond (usually only after A has called set), then it should be flagged if A responds.

We had this two weeks ago when one of the teams that uses what I would call a "timed silent count" (1-3 seconds) followed by a single "go" (so they were snapping on the 1st sound after the set following a variable delay) got called for false start in the 2nd half. When 2 plays later it happened again (B barking a color after A's set call) we realized that B had apparently made a "2nd half" adjustment and was barking out a signal (a color) during the silent part of the count. While we did not flag the 2nd incident (neither team fouled) we warned B that using that tactic would draw a flag the next time that it resulted in A false starting. No complaint from the B coach, just a sly smile.

[ddoom]

Originally Posted by RoyGardner

I agree with cougar729 in that the timing and "intent" of what the defense is doing is more important that the specific words. When it becomes obvious that the timing of B's signals is intended to get A to respond (usually only after A has called set), then it should be flagged if A responds.

No complaint from the B coach, just a sly smile.

I tend to agree with RoyGardner in that it depends on the officials judgement of the intent. I have been around football for years, both as a player (high school and college) and an official (20 years), and you know when coaches are acting with that "sly smile".

Help me out if others have an opinion. Thanks again, in advance!