You came all the way over here for that?

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Varsity game Friday night, NFHS rules.

Visitors are leading 14-7 midway through the second quarter. They have the ball, 4/5 around the home 40-yard line on my hash (as HL, I'm on the visitors' sideline), and elect to go for it. They run a naked bootleg to me side - only one home player picks up on it, but he's fast, and he catches up to the QB about two yards short of the stake, but the ball pops out on the way down. It shoots forward, bounces about five yards (i.e. past the stake), and goes OOB. No problem, 1/10 for visitors. R comes over to see what we got, I tell him, and we get the chains moving. Home captain also asks what happened, I tell him, and he says "Wow, lucky break for them, huh?" I nod my head and say "Yes it was," and we play some more football. So far, no problems.

The next half-dozen plays are ugly and chippy in middle of the field and on the other side - vistors commit both a USC and a DB PF with ejection (launching helmet 10 feet in the air and charging an opponent). It's 3/25, so the visitors take a timeout. I record the timeout and keep an eye on their huddle when I hear my last name called out. I start looking at other officials, and then at sidelines - I thought maybe a few of my students were at the game or something. Finally I notice the home coach has the card with our names on it in hand and is approaching me from his huddle at the center of the field, yelling that the visitor's QB had thrown the ball OOB on the bootleg play, and I've got to make that call.

It took me a few seconds to figure out what he was talking about - I'd already put the play out of my mind. Then I look at him and said (probably with more heat than I should have), "Coach, there's no way you're coming three-quarters of the way across the field to complain about a play that happened five minutes ago. Go back to your huddle." He didn't, I flagged him, he says "I know it's a flag, I don't care! You have got to call that." At which point my R and U step in and escort him back to his huddle, with him yelling the whole time.

What gets me is that he's got the opponents in a deep hole and he's probably going to get the ball back. He can't change the result of the play he's complaining about. And he knows he's going to draw a 15-yard penalty for doing it, but he came over here anyway. If I were a player on that team, I'd be pretty pissed off at my coach. Visitors end up gaining about eight yards on the ensuing 3/10, converting on fourth down, and driving down to score. Home team had no answer after that, and they ended up routed 47-7.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

Varsity game Friday night, NFHS rules.

Visitors are leading 14-7 midway through the second quarter. They have the ball, 4/5 around the home 40-yard line on my hash (as HL, I'm on the visitors' sideline), and elect to go for it. They run a naked bootleg to me side - only one home player picks up on it, but he's fast, and he catches up to the QB about two yards short of the stake, but the ball pops out on the way down. It shoots forward, bounces about five yards (i.e. past the stake), and goes OOB. No problem, 1/10 for visitors. R comes over to see what we got, I tell him, and we get the chains moving. Home captain also asks what happened, I tell him, and he says "Wow, lucky break for them, huh?" I nod my head and say "Yes it was," and we play some more football. So far, no problems.

The next half-dozen plays are ugly and chippy in middle of the field and on the other side - vistors commit both a USC and a DB PF with ejection (launching helmet 10 feet in the air and charging an opponent). It's 3/25, so the visitors take a timeout. I record the timeout and keep an eye on their huddle when I hear my last name called out. I start looking at other officials, and then at sidelines - I thought maybe a few of my students were at the game or something. Finally I notice the home coach has the card with our names on it in hand and is approaching me from his huddle at the center of the field, yelling that the visitor's QB had thrown the ball OOB on the bootleg play, and I've got to make that call.

It took me a few seconds to figure out what he was talking about - I'd already put the play out of my mind. Then I look at him and said (probably with more heat than I should have), "Coach, there's no way you're coming three-quarters of the way across the field to complain about a play that happened five minutes ago. Go back to your huddle." He didn't, I flagged him, he says "I know it's a flag, I don't care! You have got to call that." At which point my R and U step in and escort him back to his huddle, with him yelling the whole time.

What gets me is that he's got the opponents in a deep hole and he's probably going to get the ball back. He can't change the result of the play he's complaining about. And he knows he's going to draw a 15-yard penalty for doing it, but he came over here anyway. If I were a player on that team, I'd be pretty pissed off at my coach. Visitors end up gaining about eight yards on the ensuing 3/10, converting on fourth down, and driving down to score. Home team had no answer after that, and they ended up routed 47-7.

I understand that you thought the coach was a DOPE for coming over but you baited him with your answer and the unprofessional way you talked to him and then you stick him with 15 yards. Who is watching the teams huddle during the TO? Where is the help from your umpire/referee to keep the coach from coming all the way over to talk to you? You just should have let him make an A$$ out of himself and then stick him, your conduct was uncalled for. We need to stay calm when everything around us is going to crap.

[waltjp]

I don't fully agree. The coach knew what he was doing. Maybe the reply could have been a little different but the coach was warned before the flag was thrown. I don't like to get into all the woulda/shoulda/coulda's. I have seen usually mild-mannered officials react in ways that I would deem uncharacteristic at times, me included. Bit don't pin this on the official - the coach drew this penalty himself when he left the conference and confronted the official.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I don't fully agree. The coach knew what he was doing. Maybe the reply could have been a little different but the coach was warned before the flag was thrown. I don't like to get into all the woulda/shoulda/coulda's. I have seen usually mild-mannered officials react in ways that I would deem uncharacteristic at times, me included. Bit don't pin this on the official - the coach drew this penalty himself when he left the conference and confronted the official.

The wing officials should have said nothing, this is the difference between a good and great official. The reply was totally uncalled for, even the poster is second guessing himself on that point. If that is a warning I need to rethink how I warn coaches. I always thought saying, "coach that is enough," seems to be a bit more professional and gets the point across.

[Rich]

I'm the referee on my crew and, based on the situation posted here, would prefer to give out any warnings like this myself.

As Ron mentioned, a brief "that's enough" should suffice. If it continues, then be a bit more stern and direct the coach to his team huddle.

My wings aren't expected to be mute -- they are quite demanding when it comes to sideline decorum and making sure the teams are in the right spots during timeouts. But with a coach in the middle of the field I would hope that any USC flag thrown would be mine after giving the appropriate warnings.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I'm the referee on my crew and, based on the situation posted here, would prefer to give out any warnings like this myself.

If all R's were as diligent as you this situation might have been prevented. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the R working the game in question caught it in time.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by RonRef

The wing officials should have said nothing, this is the difference between a good and great official. The reply was totally uncalled for, even the poster is second guessing himself on that point. If that is a warning I need to rethink how I warn coaches. I always thought saying, "coach that is enough," seems to be a bit more professional and gets the point across.

Ron, you contradict yourself.

First you say that the official should have said nothing. Then you say he should say 'enough'. I agree with the latter.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by waltjp

If all R's were as diligent as you this situation might have been prevented. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the R working the game in question caught it in time.

I noticed that. It's disappointing. Being a referee is far more a mental challenge than physical one, and game management is job one. I would hope I'd catch the coach not heading to his team (inside the hashmarks, of course) and direct him there immediately.

Another thing -- I'd rather the coach be angry at ME than the guy standing on his sideline the entire game. I'm in the middle of the field and can ignore the coach for the most part. And it's easier for the wing to control the sidelines if he hasn't had a confrontation with the coach.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Ron, you contradict yourself.

First you say that the official should have said nothing. Then you say he should say 'enough'. I agree with the latter.

I was refering to him address the coach first in a unprofessional manner, if he had enough from the coach give him a formal warning, "that is enough coach."

[kraine27]

Roamin,

Did your R, U and BJ not have any additional information regarding the play in question? In other words, with the R following the play, he apparently didn't see the play any different than you or he would have stated. I would think that if any of your crew mates would have seen anything additional, they would have provided the information.

[Ed Hickland]

As an official you have to place yourself in the position of being on the other side, in other words think about your response as if you would like to be responded to.

I notice the home coach has the card with our names on it in hand and is approaching me from his huddle at the center of the field, yelling that the visitor's QB had thrown the ball OOB on the bootleg play, and I've got to make that call.

You already know the coach is hot. Maybe your referee or the other wing has failed you by containing the coach. So you throw gasonline on the now burning coach. What is the result. A raging fire!

There were two things you could do, 1) simply let the coach vent with the hope he either lets it all out and your partners help contain, or, 2) politely in a calming voice tell the coach what you saw and why you called what you did from your vantage -- he deserves that. He may not agree but it may earn you respect points rather than the disrespect when you told him to go back to his huddle. Yes, it happened five minutes ago but what harm in an explanation? He knows you are not going to change it.

There may be nothing you could have done or said that will change his mind. To question his judgement, albeit flawed, inflammed the incident and the flag only made it worst.

Did you cause the coach to quit coaching and to lose by such a margin?

Probably not, but it could be argued you did.

What the coach may have done and what so many coaches do is used the incident to try to gain control of you, that is, he baited you and you took the bait. The rest of the game he wants you to give him "his" call out of guilt for blowing up. It happens and some coaches are masters at it. In other words, he owns you.

Think it is worth remembering every call or no-call we make, we make with the solid judgement that based upon what we observed and the rules is correct. Don't let any coach or player for that matter bait you into making a call without

[JRutledge]

I have no problem with the original response. The coach came out for a fight. Nothing that would have been said by the officials would have been sufficient. If you played "dumb" and acted like you did not know what the coach was complain about, and then he would have insulted you further. We need to stop acting like we are supposed to take whatever abuse when these coaches are out of line. This is a varsity game. A varsity coach should know better. In my opinion "Roaming Umpire" did nothing wrong. It is not like he went after the coach. The coach came to the middle of the field and was yelling at the officials. The coach rolled the dice and he crapped out.

Peace

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by kraine27

Roamin,

Did your R, U and BJ not have any additional information regarding the play in question? In other words, with the R following the play, he apparently didn't see the play any different than you or he would have stated. I would think that if any of your crew mates would have seen anything additional, they would have provided the information.

BJ? Gee, it'd be nice...

The R was totally screened, but my U said later he saw it my way, even though the player's back was to the middle of the field - he said the QB's hands were still down at his waist when the ball came loose, so it would have been awfully difficult to throw it forward intentionally.

Originally Posted by RonRef

I understand that you thought the coach was a DOPE for coming over but you baited him with your answer and the unprofessional way you talked to him and then you stick him with 15 yards. Who is watching the teams huddle during the TO? Where is the help from your umpire/referee to keep the coach from coming all the way over to talk to you? You just should have let him make an A$$ out of himself and then stick him, your conduct was uncalled for. We need to stay calm when everything around us is going to crap.

Ron, I agree with you - my temper is something I need to work on, and a different reply would have been better. But this just caught me totally out of the blue. I was watching my team's huddle, and comments from coaches on my sideline generally don't surprise me, especially as they're going back and forth from the huddle during a timeout. This guy specifically wanted to get my attention - he came from his huddle to the nine-yard marks on my side just to complain, and I can't help but think he wanted to get flagged. I agree it would have been better if someone had headed him off first, but that's not the way it happened, and I've always been told that you can't allow coaches to show you up by demonstratively berating you from somewhere they're emphatically not supposed to be (at least, not without penalty).

[Texas Aggie]

Though I would have worded it differently, I have no problem with the response either. There are times when you MUST respond even if some would say that's throwing gas on the fire. It isn't like the fire is going to go out by itself without a response. I might have said something like, "coach, first, it was not a pass but a fumble, and second, I need you back on your sideline immediately." I don't believe the original comment was a bait, and this sure isn't a bait.

In responding in a factual manner gets you in trouble, then that's fine.

[Forksref]

"Coach, the timeout is almost over. You need to get back to the sideline. Coach, that's enough." I am not against using the "Stop sign" like I use in basketball.