You came all the way over here for that?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Deeps12

lol!! in baseball a coach or player gets ejected for looking at the umpire wrongly. AND THEN, they are willing to stand toe-to-toe and scream at the coach!!

Deeps, with all due respect, you have no idea of what you're talking about. Maybe you've been watching too many old-time baseball films. Baseball umpires, in general, are not having toe-to-toe arguements with managers and coaches - at least not on the amature level. In my opinion baseball umpires are far more adept at dealing with coaches than football officials.

For the rest of your post - keep the flag in your pocket if you're willing to let a coach berate you on the field - and if you do don't be surprised if you start to hear it from the other sideline too.

[JRutledge]

I am sorry, football officials never "owe" a coach an explanation. It is a courtesy for us to give an explanation. When we do give an explanation, the coach better behave in a manner that is sportsmanlike or calm. When a coach comes yelling and screaming, all bets are off. I do think we should be able to be approachable, but that means by being treated with some respect. When that respect by the coaches are not given, then we have every right to throw flags.

I am also a baseball umpire and I cannot think of one time where I was face to face with a coach. What you see in the pros almost never applies to amateur sports.

Peace

[Deeps12]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am sorry, football officials never "owe" a coach an explanation. It is a courtesy for us to give an explanation. When we do give an explanation, the coach better behave in a manner that is sportsmanlike or calm. When a coach comes yelling and screaming, all bets are off. I do think we should be able to be approachable, but that means by being treated with some respect. When that respect by the coaches are not given, then we have every right to throw flags.

I am also a baseball umpire and I cannot think of one time where I was face to face with a coach. What you see in the pros almost never applies to amateur sports.

Peace

This is well said. Of course we are on the same page with regard to this rutledge, aside from a few points I made above. And of course it is all situational; if a coach is uncontrollable or inconsolable, sometimes we have no choice...... I simply thing those times are very, very rare.

[Deeps12]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Deeps, with all due respect, you have no idea of what you're talking about. Maybe you've been watching too many old-time baseball films. Baseball umpires, in general, are not having toe-to-toe arguements with managers and coaches - at least not on the amature level. In my opinion baseball umpires are far more adept at dealing with coaches than football officials.

For the rest of your post - keep the flag in your pocket if you're willing to let a coach berate you on the field - and if you do don't be surprised if you start to hear it from the other sideline too.

While I will ignore the offense I take to some of your statement, I respect your opinion. Yet, you focused on only one part of my statement. You must work baseball, and I apologize if I was either disrespectful of that sports' officiating philosophies, or off base. Yet, you failed to absorb the rest of my statement. It is one thing to be constantly berated by a coach after warning and warning have been given. You dramatize this situation, however. In THIS situation, the coach has yet to berate anybody (roamin is 'surprised' and doesn't know what the coach is talking about).... So, out of courtesy, we do OWE the coach our take, contrary to rutledge's statement. It is his game, rutledge. Drop the ego, give him his just deserve. Courtesy and common sense say he deserves to know what we saw. Should he have relayed the request through the LJ, of course. But can we keep him out of trouble by providing him a response? Of course. Coaches want to vent, and they have EVERY right to do that. Once they've done that..... turn and walk away...... say 'i've heard enough, coach'...... Both suffice as proper warning, which has not been given in this case. A coach on the field during play, inexcusable. Charged timeouts are different and can be handled without the use of force (15).....

By the way....... Walt...... I promise I do know what I am talking about, and take offense to your assertion otherwise. I will respect how your level and conference deal with coaches, and will agree to disagree...... But will safely assert that being flag-happy toward coaches is certainly not something that the 'next' level wants to see.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Deeps12

While I will ignore the offense I take to some of your statement, I respect your opinion. Yet, you focused on only one part of my statement. You must work baseball, and I apologize if I was either disrespectful of that sports' officiating philosophies, or off base. Yet, you failed to absorb the rest of my statement. It is one thing to be constantly berated by a coach after warning and warning have been given. You dramatize this situation, however. In THIS situation, the coach has yet to berate anybody (roamin is 'surprised' and doesn't know what the coach is talking about).... So, out of courtesy, we do OWE the coach our take, contrary to rutledge's statement. It is his game, rutledge. Drop the ego, give him his just deserve. Courtesy and common sense say he deserves to know what we saw. Should he have relayed the request through the LJ, of course. But can we keep him out of trouble by providing him a response? Of course. Coaches want to vent, and they have EVERY right to do that. Once they've done that..... turn and walk away...... say 'i've heard enough, coach'...... Both suffice as proper warning, which has not been given in this case. A coach on the field during play, inexcusable. Charged timeouts are different and can be handled without the use of force (15).....

By the way....... Walt...... I promise I do know what I am talking about, and take offense to your assertion otherwise. I will respect how your level and conference deal with coaches, and will agree to disagree...... But will safely assert that being flag-happy toward coaches is certainly not something that the 'next' level wants to see.

Some of us don't care about the next level and how they handle things. We prefer to handle things right FOR THIS LEVEL.

It's my games as much as it's the coach's game, BTW. I'm not out there merely as his paid hired help.

[Deeps12]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Some of us don't care about the next level and how they handle things. We prefer to handle things right FOR THIS LEVEL.

It's my games as much as it's the coach's game, BTW. I'm not out there merely as his paid hired help.

That's my point, Rich! All levels should handle this situation the same! Flag-happy toward coaches isn't right for ANY level!

And it isn't YOUR game!!! It's those kids' who practice every day, those coaches who bring it home to their families! No, you aren't their hired help, but it isn't your field or your game. And it is just as much your responsibility is to keep those coaches and kids out of trouble IF at all possible. When you see two kids pushing after the play, and recogize the potential for a UNR late hit or a punch, do you just sit back and watch and let them hang themself? No, you rush in, get in the middle of them, provide a visual or physical deterrence. Namely, you become a good preventative dead ball official. YOU KEEP THEM OUT OF TROUBLE. I'm not gonig to let them walk all over me, granted; but UNS fouls should be avoided when possible. In Roamin's case, I feel it possible.

Though many of these responses dissapoint me, everybody is entitled to their opinions. I just hope we all can have the ability to check our egos at the door when stepping on the field.

As for me, I've got a freshman game to work in about an hour. I'll pretty much guarantee you a coach won't be flagged, nor will one be flagged at my varsity game Friday night, nor will one be flagged at the game (no less, no more important) that I will work this weekend. So spare me the 'We prefer to handle things right FOR THIS LEVEL' commentary; as my RESPECTFUL comments weren't meant to big-time anybody and were perfectly suitable to ANY level.

Isn't there anybody out there who agrees with my commentary, or are we all adopting a confrontational attitude toward those 'enemy' coaches?!!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Deeps12

That's my point, Rich! All levels should handle this situation the same! Flag-happy toward coaches isn't right for ANY level!

And it isn't YOUR game!!! It's those kids' who practice every day, those coaches who bring it home to their families! No, you aren't their hired help, but it isn't your field or your game. And it is just as much your responsibility is to keep those coaches and kids out of trouble IF at all possible. When you see two kids pushing after the play, and recogize the potential for a UNR late hit or a punch, do you just sit back and watch and let them hang themself? No, you rush in, get in the middle of them, provide a visual or physical deterrence. Namely, you become a good preventative dead ball official. YOU KEEP THEM OUT OF TROUBLE. I'm not gonig to let them walk all over me, granted; but UNS fouls should be avoided when possible. In Roamin's case, I feel it possible.

Though many of these responses dissapoint me, everybody is entitled to their opinions. I just hope we all can have the ability to check our egos at the door when stepping on the field.

As for me, I've got a freshman game to work in about an hour. I'll pretty much guarantee you a coach won't be flagged, nor will one be flagged at my varsity game Friday night, nor will one be flagged at the game (no less, no more important) that I will work this weekend. So spare me the 'We prefer to handle things right FOR THIS LEVEL' commentary; as my RESPECTFUL comments weren't meant to big-time anybody and were perfectly suitable to ANY level.

Isn't there anybody out there who agrees with my commentary, or are we all adopting a confrontational attitude toward those 'enemy' coaches?!!

It's my field and my game just as much as theirs. We'll just disagree on this one. I prepare and bring things home and work hard, just like they do. We're the third team out there. Pride and ego are two different things.

But I guess you'll be just like those coaches on TV. With cotton in your ears ignoring everything they say, no matter how unsportsmanlike.

It's not confrontational to punish unsportsmanlike conduct. Do you honestly think that we don't talk to coaches -- that we don't try to keep them from crossing the line? Please. I flagged a coach last year in a varsity game after we ejected a player of his for spearing. I gave him every chance to attend to his injured player and stop screaming at me near the hashmarks on his way to the player. I even tried to walk away from him. Eventually, the flag's gotta come out, though. It's got nothing to do with ego. I'm in charge, not him.

When they do cross the line, well, then we're passing on our responsibility if we don't penalize.

And our responsibility is quite different in a freshman game than in a D-I college game. If you don't see or understand that, then I certainly won't be able to change your mind.

[waltjp]

Deeps, my last post on this subject. If the coach wanted the ruling explained he has a procedure to follow. He can request a TO to confer with the referee. The coach is not to cross the field and approach an official who is working the other sideline.

I would certainly be having a conversation with any member of my crew who left their position to have a chat with the coach about a call. Even during time outs the officials have jobs to do.

It's been stated before; this situation should have been caught when the coach left his huddle and started for the other side of the field. It wasn't. Shame on the R, the U and the BJ but their lapses does not exonerate the coach's behavior.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Just remember a few things...

1. A coach does have a right to an explanation of what might have transpired on the field. He gets it when there's an opportune time. No need to stop the clock or take yourself away from game duties to explain. Do it when time allows. Relay the information to his sideline official if you're not in a place to explain it to him yourself. And...if you promised him an explanation, don't blow it off. Make sure you get back to him.
2. When a coach comes onto the field for a TO, he does not have the right to come across the field to discuss anything with you as the calling official. However...
3. He does have the right to use his TO to confer with the Referee, near his sideline--not in the middle of the field under the rule allowing a coach-referee conference. But even here, his 'right' is limited to discussing a possible misapplication of a rule. A difference in opinion about an official's judgment is off-limits. If the conversation begins with, "How could he call that pass interference...," the R should cut it off right there. "Thank you coach. I'll relay your concern to the back judge. Now you might want to attend to your team for the rest of your time out." Then walk away.