You came all the way over here for that?

[kraine27]

Roamin,

Did your R, U and BJ not have any additional information regarding the play in question? In other words, with the R following the play, he apparently didn't see the play any different than you or he would have stated. I would think that if any of your crew mates would have seen anything additional, they would have provided the information.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by kraine27

Roamin,

Did your R, U and BJ not have any additional information regarding the play in question? In other words, with the R following the play, he apparently didn't see the play any different than you or he would have stated. I would think that if any of your crew mates would have seen anything additional, they would have provided the information.

BJ? Gee, it'd be nice...

The R was totally screened, but my U said later he saw it my way, even though the player's back was to the middle of the field - he said the QB's hands were still down at his waist when the ball came loose, so it would have been awfully difficult to throw it forward intentionally.

Originally Posted by RonRef

I understand that you thought the coach was a DOPE for coming over but you baited him with your answer and the unprofessional way you talked to him and then you stick him with 15 yards. Who is watching the teams huddle during the TO? Where is the help from your umpire/referee to keep the coach from coming all the way over to talk to you? You just should have let him make an A$$ out of himself and then stick him, your conduct was uncalled for. We need to stay calm when everything around us is going to crap.

Ron, I agree with you - my temper is something I need to work on, and a different reply would have been better. But this just caught me totally out of the blue. I was watching my team's huddle, and comments from coaches on my sideline generally don't surprise me, especially as they're going back and forth from the huddle during a timeout. This guy specifically wanted to get my attention - he came from his huddle to the nine-yard marks on my side just to complain, and I can't help but think he wanted to get flagged. I agree it would have been better if someone had headed him off first, but that's not the way it happened, and I've always been told that you can't allow coaches to show you up by demonstratively berating you from somewhere they're emphatically not supposed to be (at least, not without penalty).

[Texas Aggie]

Though I would have worded it differently, I have no problem with the response either. There are times when you MUST respond even if some would say that's throwing gas on the fire. It isn't like the fire is going to go out by itself without a response. I might have said something like, "coach, first, it was not a pass but a fumble, and second, I need you back on your sideline immediately." I don't believe the original comment was a bait, and this sure isn't a bait.

In responding in a factual manner gets you in trouble, then that's fine.

[Forksref]

"Coach, the timeout is almost over. You need to get back to the sideline. Coach, that's enough." I am not against using the "Stop sign" like I use in basketball.

[fattuna2]

Nobody out there is stupid...presumably. We're all adults essentially donating our time and the coaches know it. If he wanted to discuss the call or *****, or cry he should have called a time out and addressed the referee. He'd have had 60 or so seconds to say what he wanted. I take my officiating as seriously as my job. I refuse to be talked down to by people who are no more important (In the grand scheme of life) than me. I wish I was better with my temper, but once again, the coach should be a professional also.

[starman]

I know wasn't the point of thew post, but I have to ask..........
In the orginal play it was fourth down, I thought that you could not fumble the ball forward on fourth down. Shouldn't the ball have been spotted at the spot of the fumble?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by starman

I know wasn't the point of thew post, but I have to ask..........
In the orginal play it was fourth down, I thought that you could not fumble the ball forward on fourth down. Shouldn't the ball have been spotted at the spot of the fumble?

NCAA rules, which are played in only 2 states at the HS level, yes. The other 48 states there is no such rule.

[NickelDeuce]

It's not just on 4th down. it's on any fumble that is forward and out of bounds. It's brought back to the spot of the fumble. If NFHS would adopt this rule, then we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

BJ? Gee, it'd be nice...

The R was totally screened, but my U said later he saw it my way, even though the player's back was to the middle of the field - he said the QB's hands were still down at his waist when the ball came loose, so it would have been awfully difficult to throw it forward intentionally.



Ron, I agree with you - my temper is something I need to work on, and a different reply would have been better. But this just caught me totally out of the blue. I was watching my team's huddle, and comments from coaches on my sideline generally don't surprise me, especially as they're going back and forth from the huddle during a timeout. This guy specifically wanted to get my attention - he came from his huddle to the nine-yard marks on my side just to complain, and I can't help but think he wanted to get flagged. I agree it would have been better if someone had headed him off first, but that's not the way it happened, and I've always been told that you can't allow coaches to show you up by demonstratively berating you from somewhere they're emphatically not supposed to be (at least, not without penalty).

Roamin
I totally agree that he should have been flagged, but you would have flagged him with or without taking the tone with him that you did. We all make mistakes every game we work, the key is to learn from them, move on, and get better next Friday! Have a great game this week.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

BJ? Gee, it'd be nice...

The R was totally screened, but my U said later he saw it my way, even though the player's back was to the middle of the field - he said the QB's hands were still down at his waist when the ball came loose, so it would have been awfully difficult to throw it forward intentionally.



Ron, I agree with you - my temper is something I need to work on, and a different reply would have been better. But this just caught me totally out of the blue. I was watching my team's huddle, and comments from coaches on my sideline generally don't surprise me, especially as they're going back and forth from the huddle during a timeout. This guy specifically wanted to get my attention - he came from his huddle to the nine-yard marks on my side just to complain, and I can't help but think he wanted to get flagged. I agree it would have been better if someone had headed him off first, but that's not the way it happened, and I've always been told that you can't allow coaches to show you up by demonstratively berating you from somewhere they're emphatically not supposed to be (at least, not without penalty).

This is also a great lesson to all of us that we need to be better dead ball officials. Even during timeouts we have to stay sharp and not let our guard down. A timeout is not a time to socialize with your fellow crewmates, we all have responsibilities during the TO! We can all work on this.

[Deeps12]

I agree with Ron regarding this scenario, all the way up until this last post.. I don't agree that the coach had to be flagged at all. I think we all agree that roamin could have been more diplomatic with the way he spoke to the coach. But that coach has every right to vent in a frustrated manner about a call, even if said call was five minutes ago. Yes, at some point we get to the 'coach, that is enough' place, but roamin himself said he was surprised about what the coach was talking about, so it was not as if he had been belaboring his frustration.

As I see it, the coach coming onto the field is the major no-no. But somebody makes the point of why the HL isn't near the sideline covering his huddle. Even so, the situation could be avoided had roamin simply escorted the coach (or walked past him, thus forcing him to follow) to the sideline while saying something to the effect of 'if you wish to calmly discuss this, we need to take it to the sideline'...... It hardly warranted an automatic flag, hell, we aren't baseball umpires!!

Emotions take over with players and coaches. They blood, sweat, tear every day, not us. If we can use preventative measures to keep them out of trouble, we need to do just that. Insecurities and egos need to be set aside; if they were we wouldn't say things like 'he was asking for it'...... I hardly think he berated roamin to the point where he needed to 'stick' him as soon as he stepped on the field. There is a difference between being shown up by a coach and letting our ego think a coach is showing us up simply because he is angry about a call.

Just my humble take.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by Deeps12

As I see it, the coach coming onto the field is the major no-no. But somebody makes the point of why the HL isn't near the sideline covering his huddle. Even so, the situation could be avoided had roamin simply escorted the coach (or walked past him, thus forcing him to follow) to the sideline while saying something to the effect of 'if you wish to calmly discuss this, we need to take it to the sideline'...... It hardly warranted an automatic flag, hell, we aren't baseball umpires!!

FWIW, despite my handle (which has its origins in when I worked baseball), I was the HL, and I was near the sideline covering my huddle. While the response could have been calmer, and I could perhaps have walked him over to his huddle or the referee, I certainly wasn't going all the way across the field back to his sideline.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Deeps12

we aren't baseball umpires!!

Exactly. In baseball it's commonplace for a manager or coach to go out on the field and question a call or express his displeasure. It's not tolerated in football. If the coach comes out on the field he gets very little latitude before he's drawing a flag for USC.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I agree with waltjp...when a coach is participating in a charged TO, he has the right to come onto the field between the hashes to speak with his players. But only for that purpose. He does not have the right to come all the way across the field to discuss anything with you. In hindsight, I'm sure you could have handled this differently. Heck, that's why you posted the question in the first place--to get others' opinions. But...that coach is skating on thin ice when he comes past his huddle, across the field to speak with an official.

[Deeps12]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Exactly. In baseball it's commonplace for a manager or coach to go out on the field and question a call or express his displeasure. It's not tolerated in football. If the coach comes out on the field he gets very little latitude before he's drawing a flag for USC.

lol!! in baseball a coach or player gets ejected for looking at the umpire wrongly. AND THEN, they are willing to stand toe-to-toe and scream at the coach!! as football officials, we pride ourselves in having the people skills and patience to deal with coaches and situations without having to exert our authority by flagging coaches!! we have the ability to diffuse situations. roamin, i did not realize you were on the OTHER side of the field from the coach's sideline. of course it is NOT tolerable for him to come all the way across the field. but surely, the U or R or BJ would have stopped him prior to him coming all the way across! even so, OF COURSE you could come across the field to discuss it with him!!! are you kidding?!! why not? charged timeout, the coach deserves an explanation and has yet to receive one because you are on the other side of the field. courtesy says you can jog over, give your take, politely listen to his take, and KEEP HIM OUT OF TROUBLE by turning and leaving!! contrary to what walt is saying, the coach should be given A LOT of latitude before drawing a flag. it is pure ego which causes us to become confrontational and 'stick' a coach. 'stick a coach'??!!! what an awful word, and contrary to the quality of work we strive to present as FOOTBALL officials.