12 men breaking the huddle

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Theisey

I'm now beginning to see why question #6 on the part II test was there.
#6: An official's personal opinion about the value of a rule is not to have an effect on the enforcement of the rule.

As described, this is a foul that needs to be called. By not doing so, you just maybe put the screws to the next crew who does make this call.

I am also going to flag this, the offensive is trying to pull a fast one on the defense, and in my opinon that is a foul in HS.

[mcrowder]

Not necessarily. Nothing in the OP indicates that the 12th player was in the huddle an inordinate amount of time. This is clearly a foul in NCAA, but there is not a FED rule that says breaking the huddle with 12 is illegal.

What IS illegal is the sub not coming off "immediately". There IS judgement that comes into play when deciding what "immediately" means, and if there is no A) intent to deceive or B) actual deception (even if unintentional), you have no reason to flag this other than showing that your are an OOO.

[kd0254]

I would give 3-5 seconds (my interpretation of immeadiatly) for the substitute to leave, otherwise it would draw a flag from me.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by kd0254

I would give 3-5 seconds (my interpretation of immeadiatly) for the substitute to leave, otherwise it would draw a flag from me.

Works for me... but the OP doesn't say one way or another, and everyone is assuming that the extra player was out for more than that. I'm just saying we can't assume, and it is important to know (in FED) that the penalty is NOT for "breaking the huddle with 12", even though coaches will yell for exactly that, but rather for the sub not coming off "immediately".

[Warrenkicker]

Something related to this happened this last Friday. The team on the other sideline is lined up for a scrimmage kick. They realize that they only have 10 players out there and run a wing back in late and he easily gets set in time for the snap. I have some coach going nuts behind me yelling that they broke the huddle with 10. I calmly tell him that isn't a rule. He then says that it should be. Oh, if we let the inmates run the assylum.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

Something related to this happened this last Friday. The team on the other sideline is lined up for a scrimmage kick. They realize that they only have 10 players out there and run a wing back in late and he easily gets set in time for the snap. I have some coach going nuts behind me yelling that they broke the huddle with 10. I calmly tell him that isn't a rule. He then says that it should be. Oh, if we let the inmates run the assylum.

This is what you get when you let 14 coaches on the field for the varsity game on Friday night!

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by RonRef

This is what you get when you let 14 coaches on the field for the varsity game on Friday night!

14??? I think it was closer to 20!!!!