Momentum Rule Discussion

[BigJWalt]

Last week our study group was trying to figure out the resluts of this play. We would appreciate some input from other officials as well.

B20 intercepts a pass at B's 2 yard line. His momentum carries him into the end zone. If he falls down or takes a knee the ball comes out to the 2 yard line.

1. What if he tries to escape the defenders and still gets tackled in the end zone?

2. What if he fumbles the ball and team B recovers in the end zone?

3. What if he fumbles the ball out of the end zone? Would force be a factor?

In all cases B20 never left the endzone.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigJWalt

1. What if he tries to escape the defenders and still gets tackled in the end zone?

B's ball at the 2.

Originally Posted by BigJWalt

2. What if he fumbles the ball and team B recovers in the end zone?

B's ball at the 2.

Originally Posted by BigJWalt

3. What if he fumbles the ball out of the end zone? Would force be a factor?

B's ball at the 2.

Originally Posted by BigJWalt

In all cases B20 never left the endzone.

B's ball is always going to be at the 2 unless B committed a penalty in the EZ or unless the ball leaves the EZ for some reason (fumble or intercepted pass). The rule was created so that B would not get a cheap safety for plays like this inside the 5 yard line.

Peace

[jfurdell]

The momentum rule goes into effect when the B player's momentum carries him into the end zone, and it becomes dead there in his team's possession. It doesn't matter how it becomes dead, or what happens while the B player is in the end zone. So...

1. Same ruling
2. Same ruling
3. Same ruling, if by "out of the end zone" you mean out the side or back of the end zone, and not into the field of play.

Force helps you decide whether a ball that became dead in the end zone is a safety or a touchback, and since neither is the case here, force is not a factor.

If the B runner crosses into the field of play and then runs back in to the end zone, the momentum exception is cancelled, and he has forced the ball into his own end zone, so it will be a safety if the ball becomes dead there in his team's possession.

[BigJWalt]

Perfect explanation guys, thank you!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BigJWalt

Last week our study group was trying to figure out the resluts of this play. We would appreciate some input from other officials as well.

B20 intercepts a pass at B's 2 yard line. His momentum carries him into the end zone. If he falls down or takes a knee the ball comes out to the 2 yard line.

1. What if he tries to escape the defenders and still gets tackled in the end zone?

2. What if he fumbles the ball and team B recovers in the end zone?

3. What if he fumbles the ball out of the end zone? Would force be a factor?

In all cases B20 never left the endzone.

0. B 1D/10 @ B-20.
1. B 1D/10 @ B-20.
2. B 1D/10 @ B-20.
3. Hmmm.... good one. I believe still B 1D/10 @ B-20.

[JGF6]

A has the ball at B's 20 yard line. A1's pass is intercepted at the three by B1 and his momentum takes him into B's end zone. A2 attempts to tackle B1 and grabs his face mask. B1 fumbles and the ball rolls back into the field of play and goes out of bounds at the five. Where is the enforcement spot and why?

[MJT]

Originally Posted by JGF6

A has the ball at B's 20 yard line. A1's pass is intercepted at the three by B1 and his momentum takes him into B's end zone. A2 attempts to tackle B1 and grabs his face mask. B1 fumbles and the ball rolls back into the field of play and goes out of bounds at the five. Where is the enforcement spot and why?

The enforcement spot is the 20 yard line, so it will 1-10 for B at the 25 yard line if it was a 5 yard FM penalty. The reason is cuz the final result of the play is a touchback, so the enforcement is spot is the 20.

[JGF6]

MJT, The final result was not a touch back. The ball was fumbled before B was tackled.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by JGF6

MJT, The final result was not a touch back. The ball was fumbled before B was tackled.

It indeed is.

8.5.2.a Exception says " When a defensive player intercepts an opponent's forward pass; intercepts or recovers an opponent's fumble or backward pass; or an R player catches or recovers a scrimmage kick or free kick between his 5-yard line and the goal line, and his original momentum carries him into the end zone where the ball is declared dead in his team's possession or it goes out of bounds in the end zone, the ball belongs to B at the spot where the pass or fumble was intercepted or recovered or the kick was caught or recovered."
Now the ball was not declared dead in his team's possession or go OOB's in the EZ, so the momentum exception does NOT apply and the result of the play is a TB. The following Redding discussion and case book play will demonstrate my point.

The Redding Study Guide states "When the run ends in the end zone after a change of possession, the basic spot is the succeeding spot. In all cases the succeeding spot associated with the run related to the foul will be the 20 yard line (Diehl interp.)"

From the case book.
10.4.5 SITUATION G: B1 intercepts A1's pass in B's end zone where B1 is grabbed by the face mask, then fumbles while in the end zone and (a) the ball rolls back into the field of play and then goes out of bounds at B's 2-yard line; (b) the ball rolls back into the field of play where B7 recovers the ball at B's 5-yard line. RULING: In both (a) and (b), the basic spot is the end of the run where fumble occurred, therefore, the 20-yard line.

The only difference between this case book play and your is that the INT was in the EZ and not at the 3, but I showed above how the momentum exception does not apply to the play you wrote.

[JGF6]

The difference in 10.4.5 Sit G is that the ball was intercepted in the end zone. If tackled, the result would have been a touch back, therefore the enforcement spot is the 20. I agree with all of that. However, in my play the result would not have resulted in a touch back because of the momentum rule, even though it dosen't apply because B was not downed in the end zone.

10.5.2 Sit. B is closer to my play:

B1 intercepts A1's pass at B's 6-yard line. He reverses his field back through his end zone where he is grabbed by the face mask and fumbles the ball out of bounds at B's 3 yard line. Ruling: The basic spot is the goal line. It would be B's ball, first and 10, at B's 15-yard line. Comment: Any loose ball that occurs after a run ends, in the end zone is ignored in determining the basic spot for penality enforcement.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by JGF6

A has the ball at B's 20 yard line. A1's pass is intercepted at the three by B1 and his momentum takes him into B's end zone. A2 attempts to tackle B1 and grabs his face mask. B1 fumbles and the ball rolls back into the field of play and goes out of bounds at the five. Where is the enforcement spot and why?

After replying the first time, I happened to catch casebook 10.4.3C. In particular, the last sentence of the comment is telling:

Originally Posted by NFHS Casebook 10.4.3C Comment

... If "momentum" is not involved, the end of the run is the goal line.

Momentum does not apply here, since the ball isn't dead behind the goal line. Therefore, enforce this foul from the goal line.

Note this is very different from the ruling where the interception takes place in the end zone - there the NFHS (with no rules support) wants the foul enforced from the 20, according to 10.4.5G.

[MJT]

Yes, the end of the run is the goal line ciz the momentum exception does not apply but that is not the enforcement spot. See the following case book play.

10.4.5 SITUATION H: B1 intercepts A's pass in B's end zone, B2 clips A9 at B's 10-yard line after the change of possession. B1 then fumbles in B's end zone and the ball rolls out of the end zone and out of bounds at B's 2-yard line. RULING: The penalty is enforced under the all-but-one principle. The end of the run is the goal line and the basic spot is the 20-yard line. The foul would be enforced half the distance, first and 10 for B on the 5-yard line. (10-4-5d).
This shows how the EOR is the EZ, but the basic spot is the 20. That is my argument of why it is inforced from the 20. Obviously this penalty is against team A.

You stated 10.4.3.C and at the end of that it references 10-3-3-C which says "ART. 3 . . . The end of the run is:
a. Where the ball becomes dead in the runner's possession.
b. Where the runner loses possession if his run is followed by a loose ball.
c. The spot of the catch when the momentum rule is in effect.
The momentum exception is not in effect, so the end of the run is given 10-3-3-b, which means we will have a TB.

[MJT]

Romin' Umpire, how do you do the sepated quotes like you have done a couple of times in this discussion????

[MJT]

I think we have an answer. A similar discussion on the NF forum going back and forth and another official found a pretty conclusive ruling.

2006 Rules Book p 80 under Football Fundamentals ...

"Fouls committed by B in the end zone on running plays where the end of the run is in the end zone (even when possession is subsequently lost in the end zone and the ball comes into (and possibley of of the field of play, is the 20-yard line. (Case Book 10.4.5. These situations, though rare, result from the normal "end of run" being a touchback and not a safety and, therefore, administration from the 20-yard line."

The ruling you found does not mention anything about it being different if it is possessed in the field of play and ends up in the EZ or possessed in the EZ initially. I think this is the conclusive proof I was looking for.

What he found on page 80 (Goal line and end zone calls) is brand new to the rule book and I would suggest everyone reads it. I don't think I would have found it there and it is a good thing for all of us to read!

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by MJT

"Fouls committed by B in the end zone on running plays where the end of the run is in the end zone (even when possession is subsequently lost in the end zone and the ball comes into (and possibley of of the field of play, is the 20-yard line. (Case Book 10.4.5. These situations, though rare, result from the normal "end of run" being a touchback and not a safety and, therefore, administration from the 20-yard line."

The ruling you found does not mention anything about it being different if it is possessed in the field of play and ends up in the EZ or possessed in the EZ initially. I think this is the conclusive proof I was looking for.

But it does say that the situations result from the normal "end of the run" being a touchback. Which, as previously discussed, it definitely is NOT here. Here's another example where applying this principle strictly leads to nonsense:

PLAY: B intercepts a pass or catches a scrimmage kick at the B2. He circles back into his own EZ during the run (no momentum involved here!) He is hit in the EZ and fumbles - the ball goes OOB at the B5. While the ball was loose, (a) B commits a clipping foul at the B6 or (b) A commits a clipping foul at the B6.

RULING: I fervently hope we're not enforcing either of these from the 20! In (a), I've got a safety. In (b), I'm enforcing the penalty from the goal line.

Now, before you say that situation (b) is covered by 10-5-2, it wouldn't result in a safety - B would end up with the ball at the B5.

After reading the point of emphasis on page 80 that you mention, it seems to me that the NFHS wants fouls in these situations enforced as if the fumble never occurred. So, if they ever get around to ruling on the original play in this thread, I'm betting they'll want it enforced from the momentum spot.

BUT, as there is no rules support for any of these situations, I'm just going to muddle through as best I can. What I've come up with are these guidelines:

• If the play would have been a touchback with no fumble, enforce from the 20 (per 10.4.5 G&H).
• If the play would NOT have resulted in a touchback, enforce from the goal line (as per 10.4.3C Comment).