Catch/No catch?

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by MG_

@Theisey: to be more precise: forward pass can be batted in any direction. backward pass cannot be batted forward

Actually....a backward pass that has not yet hit the ground CAN be batted forward by the non-passing team and could even be batted forward by the passing team if you deem their batting was NOT an attempt to gain yardage. (Kinda silly to permit a forward pass to be batted forward to gain yardgae but not a backward pass)

[MG_]

I can't think of a situation where a member of the passing could claim his batting of a backward pass forward was NOT intended to gain yardage.

Unless he was a wooden puppet.

@Bob M.: Theisey wrote "a pass in flight". "A forward pass in flight" would be less ambiguous, just my $0.02.

[TXMike]

You obviously have not reffed in West Texas MG. He could have had every intention to bat the backward pass even further backwards but the wind took it forward where someone got it or it hit the ground.

[MG_]

@TXMike: That made me think of an interesting situation. Let's assume a ball-carrier downfield attempts to "lateral" to his team mate. The backward pass is blown forward by the wind and hits the ground. By rule that's an illegal forward pass, right? Would you blow the play dead and penalize 5 yards for the wind blow?

[TXMike]

Forward is forward and backward is backward. In your scenario it is an incomplete illegal forward pass and is dead with a flag down also. In mine, it is NOT an illegal bat by Team A. I am consistent.

[MG_]

Of course it's not an illegal batting in your scenerio. It would be legal whether or not affected by the wind. In my scenerio however the wind becomes the decisive factor. What would you tell to the coach? "see rule 2-19-2-a. The wind is not my problem" ??

[TXMike]

"Wind is not my problem" is about the same as "That is not my call" Not gonna say either.

"Coach the impetus of the ball was such that it ended up forward from where it was passed by the runner. That makes it a forward pass and therefore illegal."

[Texoma_LJ]

Looking at rule 2-30-2

"A forward pass is a pass thrown with its initial direction toward the opponent's end line."

Looking at Rule 2-30-5
"A backwards pass is a pass thrown with its initial direction parallel with or toward the runner's end line."

[TXMike]

What rulebook are you using???

NCAA says:

2-19-2-a
A forward pass is determined by the point where the ball
first strikes the ground, a player, an official or anything beyond the spot
of the pass. All other passes are backward passes. When in question, it is
a forward pass rather than a backward pass when thrown in or behind the
neutral zone.

[wisref2]

Originally Posted by Texoma_LJ

Looking at rule 2-30-2

"A forward pass is a pass thrown with its initial direction toward the opponent's end line."

Looking at Rule 2-30-5
"A backwards pass is a pass thrown with its initial direction parallel with or toward the runner's end line."

This is an important rule to know - to put it into English:
It doesn't matter where the pass lands - what matters is the direction it was thrown. So even if the wind blows it forward or momentum takes it forward(and it does happen), it is still a backward pass if its initial direction was backward.

[Theisey]

I really am a stickler for rule quotes and yes, there is an exception to rule 9-4-1. Your point is valid and I can see how it could confuse or cause someone to comment further.

It was not my intention to ignore that exception, it was just that in this play we were only talking about a particular pass that was a forward pass.
... and yes I was talking about batting of this particular forward pass in any direction that's why I added it means batting it forward or backward.

I'll be a little more careful next time should I come across a too general of a statement.

I think most of us are on the same page. It's just that most of us may not know that the accepted interpertation of this action described in a recent AR as "propels" has actually been around for a long time. I can recall talking about it during our NCAA rules review/test review as far back as 1997 and again in 2000 and most certainly again in 2001. It's was not new then nor was a rule really a changed. At least now the interpertation is well known, so don't screw it up when it happens in your game. I'll not.