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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 02:11pm
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Since the incomplete pass then timeout signals were discussed, I just want some responses on a play ending inbounds near the sideline, past the line to gain and the official gives the wind the clock then kills the clock. I have been taught to just kill the clock because you are running time off the clock. May not be a problem in the third quarter but late in the fourth it could be an issue. Just throwing it out there.
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Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 02:28pm
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you are telling the referee, your crew, and everyone in the stands that the clock will start on ready. it does not take to much off of the clock. it is good communication.
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Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 02:42pm
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It does take quite a bit of time off the clock. Time yourself. Usually 2-3 winds then stoppage.

In a five man crew, the communication with the referee should occur immediately prior to marking it ready. The wing official involved should give the signal (finger wind)to the referee while the chains are being set.

With 6 or 7 man crews (with deep wing ball rotation) the referee and the wing official should have communicated prior to the game that when the ball is initially spotted, if it is placed out of bounds the clock starts on the snap. If it is placed in bounds the clock starts on the ready.

This is what I use as a wing in both high school and college games. It works very well. I think that some state associations are still using the wind and chop mechanic but I have found that the communication is better doing it the ways I have described. Depending on where you are officiating you may get dinged by the state or conference supervisor of officials either way. Find out which is recommended and use that.
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Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 03:14pm
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Wind it and stop it. That's our mechanics, there's other officials on the field that can stop the clock right away.
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Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 03:34pm
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I can see PAUMP's point.Does the BJ wind then kill the clock on that 50 yard strike to the middle of the field for a first down? I know in this case it is obvious. On the sidelines, 99% of the time, regardless if I wind then stop the clock, the WH is asking if it was in-bounds or out-of-bounds. So why bother? But I do like the answer that it is good communications to the press-box, coaches, and fans that the clock will start on the ready. And there are other officials to stop the clock (except on 4-man to the LJ's side, unless obviously a first down).

When it comes to plays on my sideline short of the line to gain, I always wind. So when I get beyond the line to gain, I'm already winding if close or obviously a first down. So it's not different to me.
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Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 03:39pm
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According to the Fed Officials manual, wind then kill. According to the CCA manual for NCAA officials, kill only. There was much discussion this year about this among college officials. The change was made this past offseason that wind then kill was to be no longer used.

I can see the benefit in both ways. It does eat up time, 1-2 seconds, sometimes more. But more time could be wasted if the coach doesn't realize that the clock will start with the ready after a first down. He sees only the stop the clock and from across the field, he may not have the best view whether he was inbounds or not.

Would it then be our job to tell him it starts on the ready? Or is that the jobs of the coaches in the box? Difficult either way.
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Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 04:03pm
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Lightbulb Canadian Mechanics

In Canada we never use the wind signal at the end of play. In situations where the WH needs to know if the play should start on the snap the sideline official would communicate this with an inbounds (palms down in front of body) or an OOB (thumbs over shoulder) signal.

I could see problems in your mechanics where in the last few seconds you need to stop the clock and signal that it will start on the ready. You could easily lose precious time.



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Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 06:43pm
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Re: Canadian Mechanics

Quote:
Originally posted by wwcfoa43
In Canada we never use the wind signal at the end of play. In situations where the WH needs to know if the play should start on the snap the sideline official would communicate this with an inbounds (palms down in front of body) or an OOB (thumbs over shoulder) signal.

I could see problems in your mechanics where in the last few seconds you need to stop the clock and signal that it will start on the ready. You could easily lose precious time.
Agreed.

It is a poor mechanic.
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Old Thu Dec 01, 2005, 08:45pm
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Re: Re: Canadian Mechanics

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Quote:
Agreed. It is a poor mechanic.
I don't know about poor mechanic. I personally think that it adds to the communication of everyone, not just officials and coaches, but clock operators and fans too. Not that the fans give a flip, but I think the intent is good.

Obviously the biggest downside is the time wasted giving the wind twice then kill. That's the biggest drawback. Other than that, I think it is effective.
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Old Fri Dec 02, 2005, 01:47am
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Well lets be honest, it does very little to benefit the officials. I wish we could hear some coaches input on this because their opinion matters in this situation.
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Old Fri Dec 02, 2005, 09:11am
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Re: Re: Re: Canadian Mechanics

[QUOTE]Originally posted by grantsrc
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Quote:
Agreed. It is a poor mechanic.
I don't know about poor mechanic. I personally think that it adds to the communication of everyone, not just officials and coaches, but clock operators and fans too. Not that the fans give a flip, but I think the intent is good.

Obviously the biggest downside is the time wasted giving the wind twice then kill. That's the biggest drawback. Other than that, I think it is effective.
As far as the clock goes, we have a mechanic in Canada where the WH will hold the clock by having his arm up if it does not start until the snap. (Mind you, we do not hold the clock near as often as you do.)

I do agree though that our inbounds/OOB signal does not communicate well to coaches, fans and press box.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2005, 02:26pm
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Talking communication

My crew does NOT use the wind & kill mechanic. Rather, we use the kill only.

But, here is how WE communicate to the whole stadium: if the play is between the numbers and sideline, (and a 1st down) we kill it. Then the covering wingman stands at the spot with either both hands (palms down) in front of his body --IN BOUNDS clock on READY or hands behind (palms up) --- OOB. Clock on SNAP. He will hold this position for a few seconds, mostly while the ballis being spotted, then return to his duties. We have had a few coaches comment on it. They like it for the reasons given above: no time wasted & tells everyone in /out!
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Old Tue Dec 13, 2005, 09:48pm
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Re: Canadian Mechanics

Quote:
Originally posted by wwcfoa43
In Canada we never use the wind signal at the end of play. In situations where the WH needs to know if the play should start on the snap the sideline official would communicate this with an inbounds (palms down in front of body) or an OOB (thumbs over shoulder) signal.

I could see problems in your mechanics where in the last few seconds you need to stop the clock and signal that it will start on the ready. You could easily lose precious time.

I don't see it as that big of a deal. If you lose too much time, you can always reset the clock.
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Old Tue Dec 13, 2005, 10:39pm
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Re: Re: Canadian Mechanics

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by wwcfoa43
In Canada we never use the wind signal at the end of play. In situations where the WH needs to know if the play should start on the snap the sideline official would communicate this with an inbounds (palms down in front of body) or an OOB (thumbs over shoulder) signal.

I could see problems in your mechanics where in the last few seconds you need to stop the clock and signal that it will start on the ready. You could easily lose precious time.

I don't see it as that big of a deal. If you lose too much time, you can always reset the clock.
Accumulated over a game, you could lose many many seconds!
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Old Wed Dec 14, 2005, 09:23am
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Re: Re: Re: Canadian Mechanics

Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Accumulated over a game, you could lose many many seconds!
REPLY: JR...don't mean to disagree too strongly, but over a game, how many seconds could you really lose? If it happens 10 times, that's only 20 seconds lost at the most. In a 48 minute game, that amounts to about 0.5% of the clock. Isn't that really chump-change? I'm not arguing either way, but the lost time really doesn't matter except during the last minute or so of either half. Outside of those times, who really cares that the clock lost a second or two? Has anybody ever heard a coach complain that he would have had one more play had the officials not lost that one second in the middle of the first quarter?
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