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Tue Nov 08, 2005, 10:08am
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Think I did this one right!?
R called roughing the passer. Pass completed with LJ calling defensive pass interference. Assistant coach for team on defense goes bananas gets unsportsmanlike. Here was my speech to the offensive captain. Captain, we have two penalties and you get your choice of one. The pass was complete. There was a roughing the passer, so, we can add 15 yards from where the ball was caught. Or, there was defensive pass interference which would take the ball back to the line were it was snapped and go fifteen yards. Both fouls will give you an automatic first down. Then, after you make a decision on one of those, there was an unsportsmanlike foul which will take you half the distance from wherever the ball is placed after the first foul and, of course, that will give youa first down. Would appreciate any ideas. Notice I never told the captain about declining the penalty because if he did there would have been an unsportsmanlike on the offensive coach for his remarks.  
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Tue Nov 08, 2005, 11:57am
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Notice I never told the captain about declining the penalty because if he did there w
Just wondering what the offensive coach was yapping about?
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Tue Nov 08, 2005, 04:08pm
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Canadian Ruling
Quote:
Up here we really ding these acts. The roughing the passer flag is a UR - which is added to other fouls. The bench foul is an OC - also added. Since the catch was caught, it is rare to accept the DPI. So go up 25 from the Point Ball Dead, AFD.
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Pope Francis
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Wed Nov 09, 2005, 08:29am
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Quote:
TXMike, unlike the NCAA the NF still wants the Captain to be consulted on all penalty situations. That does not mean that we have to make a long drawn speech. All that does is give the Captain a chance to make a mistake. Keep it short. Just ask the Captain, you want to decline the DPI and except the RTP penalty and the USC penalty, am I correct? If he gives you a blank stare, then you can go into a more detailed explanation. By the way, because the last run ended beyond the neutral zone and there was no change in possession, the RTP foul is enforced from the dead ball spot not the spot of the foul. [Edited by Dale Smith on Nov 9th, 2005 at 08:32 AM]
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Wed Nov 09, 2005, 08:33am
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Quote:
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Wed Nov 09, 2005, 09:00am
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I agree with you 100%, Mike, but one thing I've noticed from new officials imported from Fedlandia is that they tend to unnecessarily slow the game by giving the captains (heck... they even will do this to 7th graders!) options when it's absurd to even ask. With one guy I worked with a lot, the habit was impossible to break.
False Start on the offense --- walk it, don't ask... but this guy asked all year. Facemask penalties at the end of the run - they ask. I don't get it, and I don't understand why they are trained that way... but they are.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Wed Nov 09, 2005, 10:03am
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Ok, setting the USC aside. For the other stuff I make it simple and tell the captains what penalties we have with this kind of description....
"OK, captain we have pass interference and roughing the passer. If it's OK with you we'll decline the interference because that's enforced from the previous spot and accept the roughing and we'll enforce from the end of the run. I'm sure you want the ball at the 25 instead of the 40" (assuming going in of course). Of course the captain agrees and says yeah, we'll take that. I might not be exactly that wordy but the key point is "if it's OK with you this is what we're going to do" kind of thing. I even tell the coaches in my Pre Game that we'll extend the courtesy to both teams and give common sense penalty options (meaning, the no-brainer stuff that the offended coach would want). I tell the coach on choices that would give 2nd and 15 vs. 3rd and 10 that's solely the captain's decision to make.
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Wed Nov 09, 2005, 10:14am
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TXMike and mcrowder believe it or not, I do agree with you. Unfortunately NF 10-1-1 says always consult with the Captain. Until several years ago our state commissioner demanded that we follow that rule to the letter. I got told about consulting with the Captain, after a game that this guy just happened to be at. When he retired the new guy backed off and told us to just tell the Captain what we are going to do when the choice is obvious.
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Wed Nov 09, 2005, 10:25am
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Friday night varsity: Captain, if you decline the penalty you'll have this, and if you accept the penalty you'll have this. I'ts his decision. He's the captain and given that rsponsibility by his coach. It's not my responsibility to enlighten the player, but to give him his options as succinctly as possible.
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Wed Nov 09, 2005, 10:35am
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It is also NOT your role to permit something ridiculous to happen, which you do by opening the door to a declination. If you want to say this is a Fed (or State) requirement to do this, then fine. But I defy anyone to explain the logic behind doing so and to provide a reason for doing so aside from "that is what we are told to do".
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Wed Nov 09, 2005, 11:10am
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So, 1st and 10 on the 20. Defense jumps across the neutral zone and makes contact. You signal the foul.
Then you waste time finding a captain (they've already rehuddled and are more interested in getting the new play from the sideline, so you have to holler a couple of times before you get one). "Captain - you can accept the penalty and have 1st and 5 on the 25, or decline and have 1st and 10 from the 20. Which would you like?" (And yes, this is EXACTLY what the guy I was mentioning above would do, and I couldn't break him of the habit) Do you flag the captain for USC after he gives you the "You're an idiot" look? This is not just silly, it's a waste of time for EVERYONE at the game. I agree with asking the captain when there is an actual decision to be made (1st and 5 vs 2nd and 1... or 2nd and 20 vs 3rd and 10, etc). But when one option is clearly the "only" real option, don't ask. Signal it, walk it, signal it, start the clock.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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