Holding in the endzone

IAUMP · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 09:38am

For the past week crew chief and I have been debating the penalty enforcement of a play we saw in an AF2 game. We are discussing the play as we would apply the rules in a Fed High School game. Here is the play.

3rd down and 15 from A's 1 yard line. As A1 drops back to pass A50 holds B99 in the endzone before the pass is thrown. Please respond as to your placement if B were to accept the penalty.

mikesears · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 10:02am

Safety. Any foul where the enforcement spot is behind the offending team's goal line is a safety. Basic spot is the previous spot. Spot of the foul is behind the basic spot so enforce from spot of foul. Because enforcement spot is behind A's goal line, the result is a safety. A will kick the ball from the A-20.

IAUMP · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 10:07am

Mike,

That is what my crew chief states, however I believe you should replay 3rd down with the ball on the 1/2 yard line. Because it is a loose ball play shouldn't the enforcement be from the previous spot?

Rule 10-3-1d states that the run preceing a legal pass is part of the loose ball play. And rul 10-4-2b states that the basic spot is the previous spot on loose ball plays.

I am just wanting to make sure we have the proper handle on this if we should have it happen in a game.

Bob M. · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 10:16am

Quote:

Originally posted by IAUMP
Mike,

That is what my crew chief states, however I believe you should replay 3rd down with the ball on the 1/2 yard line. Because it is a loose ball play shouldn't the enforcement be from the previous spot?

Rule 10-3-1d states that the run preceing a legal pass is part of the loose ball play. And rul 10-4-2b states that the basic spot is the previous spot on loose ball plays.

I am just wanting to make sure we have the proper handle on this if we should have it happen in a game.

REPLY: You're right that the hold did indeed occur during a loose ball play and therefore the BASIC SPOT is the previous spot--but not necessarily the enforcement spot! Now that you have the BASIC spot established, you need to overlay the "All-but-one" principle on top of it. Remember that all fouls except one are enforced from the basic spot. The one that's not is a foul by the OFFENSE which occurs behind the BASIC SPOT. The penalty for such a foul is enforced from the spot of the foul. This is exactly your play. The hold occurred behind the basic spot. That's why enforcement is from a spot in A's endzone--therefore a safety results.

Ed Hickland · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 10:31am

Safety under any code.

A foul committed in the end zone is a spot foul, therefore, it is a safety.

JugglingReferee · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 10:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by IAUMP
For the past week crew chief and I have been debating the penalty enforcement of a play we saw in an AF2 game. We are discussing the play as we would apply the rules in a Fed High School game. Here is the play.

3rd down and 15 from A's 1 yard line. As A1 drops back to pass A50 holds B99 in the endzone before the pass is thrown. Please respond as to your placement if B were to accept the penalty.

Safety.

grantsrc · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 05:02pm

More basic spot/enforcement spot talk? Loose ball play/Running play? Behind/beyond NZ? AHHHH! I don't know how much more I can take of this!

(see biggest misconceptions thread)

Jim S · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 25, 2005, 03:16pm

Yep Safety...... It IS more of that "basic spot stuff". Did the foul occur in front or behind the basic spot?
Remember that the "basic spot" is not necessarily the enforcement spot. If the foul had occured at the 2, you would be correct.

[Edited by Jim S on Jun 25th, 2005 at 04:20 PM]

mikesears · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 27, 2005, 07:19am

Rule 8-5-2c:

Quote:

It is a safety when a player on offense commits any foul for which the penalty is accepted and enforcement is from a spot in his end zone;

Two spots must be determined when a foul occurs.

Basic spot.

Spot of the foul

The enforcement spot for any foul will be either one of these two spots. 3-and-1 or all-but-one states that all fouls (EXCEPT ONE TYPE OF FOUL) are enforced from the basic spot. The one type of foul NOT enforced from the basic spot is a foul by the offense that occurs behind the basic spot. THIS ONE FOUL is then enforced from the spot of the foul. 8-5-2c applies to a hold by the offense in the endzone.