|
Fri May 13, 2005, 07:41am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
Fri May 13, 2005, 12:30pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yesterday the summer issue of Offical's Quarterly from the Fed arrived in my mailbox and in it is an article dealing with forward progress. The article deals with runners, forward progress at the pylon and also recievers.
"The same principles apply when a reciever jumps in the air, catches the ball, and before returning to the ground, is stacked up by the defense and driven backward. Provided he made a catch by rule, his progress is marked at that forward spot of advancement before he was driven back. So is the writer saying he should get the 31 where he grasped the ball or the 30 where he was wrapped up?
|
|
Fri May 13, 2005, 12:43pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
My first thought when I read it was to mark the ball at the 30, but after reading some of the replies, I question whether it should be marked at the 28. Need to look that one up tonite.
As for the second question posed, incomplete pass, as he did not complete the catch by touching the ground inbounds.
|
|
Fri May 13, 2005, 06:09pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
I realize if the pass is incomplete it would be spotted at the previous spot. I posed the question because to me, it relates directly as to where you spot the ball in the first scenario.
If we rule the pass to be incomplete, it is because there is no "catch" (by rule) on the play originally described until the receiver makes contact with the ground. If there is no catch until he contacts the ground in the case of the incomplete pass.... it must also be ruled that there is no catch (in the original scenario) until the receiver touches the ground (A's 28 yard line). Conversely, in the question I asked... if you rule a fumble, it is because it has been ruled that a legal "catch" has been made before the receiver touches the ground (which is not what is written in rule #2) and therefore in the original scenario, it would be logical to mark the ball at A's 30.
|
|
Fri May 13, 2005, 08:05pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
It's definitely not a catch until he touches the ground and I think we're all pretty much on board with that. We had an all-NCAA crew work a high school game and the crew was berated by the coach (which I heard got him a suspension) that had to do with the definition of a catch. The A player went in the air, completely possessed the ball, then was hit while still airborne, the ball popped out, then the football subsequently hit the ground. A member of team B picked up the ball (right in front of B's bench) and started to advance what he tought was a fumble. The LJ quickly blew the whistle and ruled incomplete pass. The bench went nuts from what I heard. The play was discussed at our weekly chapter assembly and we were told the crew got the call correct. So, with the case we have before us I'm sticking to the 28 because that's where the catch was completed. If the player had been moving forward I may have ruled differently.
|
|
Sat May 14, 2005, 07:45am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Art. 2 . . . When an airborne player makes a catch, forward progress is the furthest point of advancement after he possesses the ball if contacted by a defender. I think this makes a case for spotting the ball at the 30.
|
|
Sat May 14, 2005, 09:40am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Rule #2...
"A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight and first contacting the ground inbounds or being contacted by an opponent in such a way that he is prevented from returning to the grounds inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball." The only time forward progress would apply to the receiver being airborne would be when the receiver is unable to first touch the grounds inbounds. If the A player was first contacted at the 30 and was driven out of bounds at the 28, then the ball would be spotted at the 30. In the original scenarion though, the ball should be marked at the 28, the spot where the play became a legal catch. The catch must preceed forward progress. [Edited by texoma_lj on May 14th, 2005 at 10:43 AM]
|
|
Sat May 14, 2005, 09:48am
|
|||
|
|||
|
The NFHS Rules Study Guide (by Demetriou and Redding), gives example 5-19 on page 34.
Second and 10 on Team A's 30 yard line. A7 passes forward to A84 who fish hooks and dives backwards grabbing the ball at his 45 yard line. B23 makes contact at the 44 yard line and A84 lands at his 43 yard line. RULING: The ball is spotted where A84 was contacted, the 44 yard line. While this isn't the exact play that Mike Sears presented, it does have the same general components: A receiver is coming back towards the passer, gains possession of the ball, is contacted by the defender, and then completes the catch by returning to the ground. Demetriou and Redding go on to say that, "Once awarded a catch, forward progress is marked at the point where the receiver is contacted or pushed forward. The spot where the receiver would have landed is not the forward progress spot."
__________________
kentref
|
|
Sat May 14, 2005, 12:46pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
Sat May 14, 2005, 02:39pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Gentlemen, the term is forward progress. Where would he be without the contact?
If the contact stops the forward progress award the yardage. In this case it dosen't Why would we give the receiver extra yardage that he hasn't earned? Now you may decide that he would come down somewhere between the 28 & 30. Give him that if you will, but unless you think he can stop in mid air when he is moving in any direction the spot where the contact is made is not a hard spot. Take the same pass at the sideline where the receiver lands OB. The rules on a catch require that the receiver would have returned inbounds if the contact had not occured. The mere fact that there was contact does NOT take away this requirement. So if we were to award forward progress in the middle of the field, we would also do so at the sideline. And this is demonstrably not so.
__________________
Jim Schroeder Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2!
|
|
Sat May 14, 2005, 04:28pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Are you saying that the ball should be spotted at the 28?
__________________
kentref
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
|
|
Linear Mode
