Stump the chump, 3-31

[MJT]

1-10 at the A20. Eligible receiver A1 is running up the sideline when he voluntarily goes OOB’s at team A’s 33. A legal forward pass is thrown in his direction and he leaps while OOB’s at A’s 34 and is airborne over inbounds territory at A’s 36 when he bats the ball backwards to eligible receiver A2 at A’s 32. A1 returns to the ground inbounds A’s 37. A2 makes the catch and runs for a TD.

State NF or NCAA, as they are different.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by MJT
1-10 at the A20. Eligible receiver A1 is running up the sideline when he voluntarily goes OOB’s at team A’s 33. A legal forward pass is thrown in his direction and he leaps while OOB’s at A’s 34 and is airborne over inbounds territory at A’s 36 when he bats the ball backwards to eligible receiver A2 at A’s 32. A1 returns to the ground inbounds A’s 37. A2 makes the catch and runs for a TD.

State NF or NCAA, as they are different.

Illegal Participation.

10 yards from point of last scrimmage, down repeated.

[IAUMP]

I don't have books handy but I believe the Fed ruling would also be illegal participation with a 10 yard penalty from the spot of the batting.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by IAUMP
I don't have books handy but I believe the Fed ruling would also be illegal participation with a 10 yard penalty from the spot of the batting.

REPLY: Agree with the illegal participation for Federation. But some questions to ask yourself:
(1) What kind of play was in progress when the foul occurred?
(2) What is the basic spot of enforcement for that type of play?
(3)How does the 'all-but-one' principle fit into the enforcement?

[IAUMP]

Bob,

Not long after I posted my original reply, I realized that I had messed up the enforcement. Unfortunately, I have been too busy at work to correct my original post. So here is the correct.

Illegal Participation on a loose ball play. Enforce 10 yard penalty from previous spot, and replay down. Obviously the touchdown will not be awarded.

Thanks,

[ljudge]

For Fed -

The enforcement for IP is 15 yards (typically). Since the play was from A20 it's 1/2 the distance penalty. Enforcement spot is previous spot, replay the down.

[wisref2]

I'm not so sure about your ruling on this one. I'm open to being called an idiot on this one, but........

It is an incomplete pass - no foul on the play (Federation rules). He jumped from OOB, so he was still OOB when he touched the ball. The touching makes the ball dead (ball touching a player who is OOB).

It's the same as if he would have caught the ball OOB.

He never returned to the field, so there is no illegal participation. A player eligible at the start of a down is elegible through the entire down, so it's not pass interference.

Everything that follows the touching is ignored, since the play ended when the ball was touched.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by wisref2
I'm not so sure about your ruling on this one. I'm open to being called an idiot on this one, but........

It is an incomplete pass - no foul on the play (Federation rules). He jumped from OOB, so he was still OOB when he touched the ball. The touching makes the ball dead (ball touching a player who is OOB).

It's the same as if he would have caught the ball OOB.

He never returned to the field, so there is no illegal participation. A player eligible at the start of a down is elegible through the entire down, so it's not pass interference.

Everything that follows the touching is ignored, since the play ended when the ball was touched.

REPLY: I'm certainly not going to call a fellow official an idiot, but I do take exception with your interpretation. If you read the definition (NF 2-28-1 or NCAA 4-2-1a) both codes agree that a player is out of bounds when he is touching something other than a player or game official on or outside the sideline or endline. The most common situation is the ground. There's no requirement in either rule code that a player having been out of bounds must re-establish himself inbounds. If he's not touching something out-of-bounds, he's by definition inbounds. Both codes agree. This is unlike basketball where a player having been OOB is required to re-establish himself back inbounds. So in the posted play, it's not an incomplete pass, but rather a legally batted ball by an illegal participant for Federation. For NCAA, the receiver loses his eligibility by going OOB on his own accord. A different rule governs this.

[wisref2]

Thanks Bob, I'll do some research on this at home tonight. I recall reading a case play similar to this, probably in Referee Magazine, last football season. I might have saved it because I know my crew talked about it during a pre-game session. And thanks for not calling me an idiot!

[WVREF]

One minor point. After enforcing penalty clock will start on snap. NF

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by WVREF
One minor point. After enforcing penalty clock will start on snap. NF

REPLY: Correct...because the ball became dead behind the goal line. The fact that the TD will be subsequently negated by B's acceptance of the penalty for A's IP foul is of no consequence to the timing rule.

[wisref2]

I must still have my basketball brain installed. I did some research last night and agree with the original ruling. Just another minor point, the mechanic is to drop a beanbag (not your hat) at the point the player went OOB, and a flag at the spot where he returns.