Stump the chump - roughing the passer - Page 2

JugglingReferee · #16 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 09:11pm

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Originally posted by ref18

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Originally posted by JugglingReferee

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Originally posted by ref18
I agree with that. It's a late tackle on the ball. In the tacklers head it was more than likely a live ball action, therefore I agree it should be penalized as a UR that occured when the ball is live. Now the only thing that sort of goes against that is what if it was after 3rd down with yards not gained. The continuity of downs has been interupted, it is team B's ball, but they commit a late hit, are we then going to give the ball back to team A, for a foul that occured after the ball was dead???

Good point. Very good point actually.

Ok, here's my reasoning: last play of 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter, and 4th quarter if the game is currently tied, A is tackled at the R-35. If a piling on is called, then A must administer this foul in the following quarter (or OT). Ok fine: they are kick off 15 yards up or receive the ball 15 yards in their favour. BUT: they might rather choose to apply it in *that* quarter, because 15 from the R-35 is the R-20 - perfect for a field goal attempt for 3 points.

So......... amend the piling on application to be a continuous act foul and if occurs during the last play of a quarter, the quarter may be extended for 1 play after the penalty application. If it is not the last play of the quarter, and the play happens after yards were not gained, there is still a CoP.

I know it's a handful...

Why don't we amend the rules to say that any foul which occurs after the ball is dead in the last play of the quarter but before the referee waves his flag around is applied as if it happened during the quarter or the option to apply it in the subsequent quarter, whichever is most advantageous to the team that was offended. Thereby allowing the one last play to kick a field goal or punt it through the endzone. Or allowing you to have the wind if you didn't have it on the previous play.

Does this make sense, or did I start to ramble??

It makes sense, except that a hold after a tackle doens't really mean much. :smile:

This gets me into yet another article I'm writing (besides the bean bag one) about the classification of fouls.

The only fouls that fall into your description above, in my opinion, are UR and RP. OC is not severe enough and NM just doesn't matter, even though it is applied just as OC is.

You know how in b-ball the game is not over until the officials have left the visual confines of the playing area? We could say that a quarter isn't really over until the R waves the hanky.

ref18 · #17 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 09:18pm

I just look at some other sequences that affect penalty application. Like a UR or OC that occurs after yards gained but before the sticks are set requires all the yardsticks to be moved to the new point of scrimmage, where if it happens after the chain is set only the downbox moves. I think the referee waving the flag could go with this.

Here's my wording for the new rule

"Any foul that occurs after the ball is dead on the last play of the quarter, but before the referee waves his flag may be applied in the previous quarter or the subsequent quarter."

Maybe someone should send that to Mr. Green

MJT · #18 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 09:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
I just look at some other sequences that affect penalty application. Like a UR or OC that occurs after yards gained but before the sticks are set requires all the yardsticks to be moved to the new point of scrimmage, where if it happens after the chain is set only the downbox moves. I think the referee waving the flag could go with this.

Here's my wording for the new rule

"Any foul that occurs after the ball is dead on the last play of the quarter, but before the referee waves his flag may be applied in the previous quarter or the subsequent quarter."

Maybe someone should send that to Mr. Green

I take it under Canadian rules the referee waves his flag to indicate the quarter is over, similar to how we hold the ball over our head?

ref18 · #19 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 09:25pm

I guess they used to shoot a gun off, they still do in the CFL, but now the referee blows his whistle and waves the flag around.

Do you guys down south hold the ball over your heads?? I always wondered what you guys did to signal the end of a quarter.

JugglingReferee · #20 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 09:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
I just look at some other sequences that affect penalty application. Like a UR or OC that occurs after yards gained but before the sticks are set requires all the yardsticks to be moved to the new point of scrimmage, where if it happens after the chain is set only the downbox moves. I think the referee waving the flag could go with this.

I've never agreed with the sticks being set as the moment where penalty application changes. I think it should be the RFP. The RFP is more consistent than stick's moments.

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
Here's my wording for the new rule

"Any foul that occurs after the ball is dead on the last play of the quarter, but before the referee waves his flag may be applied in the previous quarter or the subsequent quarter."

Maybe someone should send that to Mr. Green

Nicely worded.

ref18 · #21 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 09:30pm

I agree with you on that one, because what if you've got a slow stick-crew, or what if you've got a really fast stick-crew. The penalty application should be on a definite factor, not the speed of your stick-crew.

Maybe in 20 years when I might have some sort of pull with the rulebook I'll bring up that change. LOL!!

MJT · #22 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 09:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
I guess they used to shoot a gun off, they still do in the CFL, but now the referee blows his whistle and waves the flag around.

Do you guys down south hold the ball over your heads?? I always wondered what you guys did to signal the end of a quarter.

Yes, after the play if over and you have made sure you have no fouls, the referee takes the ball and holds it over his head.

ref18 · #23 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:02pm

That's pretty interesting, I wonder what other mechanics you guys use that are different from ours??

And with this I log off the official forum for an hour to watch law and order. See Mike, I do, do somethings besides reading this site

MJT · #24 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
That's pretty interesting, I wonder what other mechanics you guys use that are different from ours??

And with this I log off the official forum for an hour to watch law and order. See Mike, I do, do somethings besides reading this site

Ya, I just take my laptop with me on the couch so I can see new posts, see the BB scores, read the IA message board, check the weather, and whatever else. That is if I am not working a BB game.

ref18 · #25 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 11:03pm

My laptop's old and the battery died about 6 months ago. 4 months before we got broadband and I connected it to the internet. I'd love to move around with it, but that involves shutting it down, then starting it up and carrying an adapter around with me whenever I need the computer. So I just move it between my desk and my bed. It seems to work good there. I guess one of the things I should do with my next officiating pay-cheque is buy a new laptop, or buy a new battery

MJT · #26 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 11:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
My laptop's old and the battery died about 6 months ago. 4 months before we got broadband and I connected it to the internet. I'd love to move around with it, but that involves shutting it down, then starting it up and carrying an adapter around with me whenever I need the computer. So I just move it between my desk and my bed. It seems to work good there. I guess one of the things I should do with my next officiating pay-cheque is buy a new laptop, or buy a new battery

Best thing I did was to go wireless in my house. Now when my wife is on the computer doing Ebay, I can still be on my laptop. At the same time my daughter has my parents old computer in her room and can be on Barbie.com. Life is good when you don't argue about computer time!!