The 5 Yard Facemask Penalty

[BktBallRef]

Gentlemen, the 5 yard facemask foul has become a scapegoat for us as officials.

I am so tired of seeing officials who do not have the gonads to make the personal foul call when the mask is grabbed and the runner's head is turned or twisted. That's a 15 yard foul. It was not the intent of the rule to allow a 5 yard foul to be called in that situation. The intent was to have the incidental facemask called, as officials were hesitant to throw a 15 yarder, for simply inadvertantly grabbing the mask. Instead, officials are using the 5 yarder as a crutch for the 15 yarder, to penalize the offending team but "too harshly," even though the head is being twisted.

It's bull$hit and I'm tired of seeing it.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox now!

[JRutledge]

Maybe your beef is a local one. I see the 15 yard facemask penalties most of the time. I know my crew called the 15 yard facemask penalties most of the time as well. I also think different officials have different judgment and you will have different calls from time to time. I agree with you that some officials cop out on this and other calls like roughing the Kicker as compared to Running into the Kicker just to name one example. I am just not seeing it as a wide spread issue. Maybe something an official might need to address in his game, but not something chronic in officiating.

Then again, I am just one person. I would be sure there are others that have a different perspective on this issue.

Peace

[ljudge]

Well BBR, I agree. I made a turkey day call that a member of my crew couldn't believe I made and on the ride home (with my back judge) he said something like "I can't believe you had the 'nads to make that call. You got courage dude." Well enough of that...I appreciated his comment.

Here's the situation...

Team A is pinned down at their own 1 with :50 left in the 4th quarter facing 4th down leading the game 14-7. The coach of team A wanted to take an intentional safety but wanted A to run around the EZ for a few seconds to burn time off the clock (instead of risking a blocked punt). The QB danced around the EZ running parallel to the endline. When he was tackled B grabbed and pulled the back of his helmet up (from the back forward). Both my HL, moi, and my U threw the hankie.

We had a quick discussion and ruled PF. My HL wanted a 5-yarder but the player was facing him so he didn't get a good view of the B player pulling up on the helmet. I looked at my U and said "you know, he pulled up on the helmet..I got a PF." He said "so do I...we can't worry about that." (meaning what people would think)

A few fans were annoyed saying "let the kids decide the game..." But I'm thinking the B player decided the game if you want to go there. He knew the A player was going down so why the heck did he need to grab the helmet opening and pull up on the helmet?

The "football fan" part of me wanted to rule a 5 yarder but I don't think it was the right thing to do even though I knew that penalty call would eventually seal the game. I have my share of calls that could be questioned but I slept well on this one.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Gentlemen, the 5 yard facemask foul has become a scapegoat for us as officials.

I am so tired of seeing officials who do not have the gonads to make the personal foul call when the mask is grabbed and the runner's head is turned or twisted. That's a 15 yard foul. It was not the intent of the rule to allow a 5 yard foul to be called in that situation. The intent was to have the incidental facemask called, as officials were hesitant to throw a 15 yarder, for simply inadvertantly grabbing the mask. Instead, officials are using the 5 yarder as a crutch for the 15 yarder, to penalize the offending team but "too harshly," even though the head is being twisted.

It's bull$hit and I'm tired of seeing it.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox now!

I’ve seen this with a few of the newer officials. And I guess a smattering of some experienced ones too. What ticks me off is when it’s reported as a 5 yarder on action that might rate a “phantom foul” at best. And then when you ask them for a number they don’t have one. In my pre-game when I get to W.H, I tell the crew not to come to me with a foul unless you have a # and know the signal. I think this helps us to remember to call quality fouls only. No wishy-washy stuff .

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by James Neil
I’ve seen this with a few of the newer officials. And I guess a smattering of some experienced ones too. What ticks me off is when it’s reported as a 5 yarder on action that might rate a “phantom foul” at best. And then when you ask them for a number they don’t have one. In my pre-game when I get to W.H, I tell the crew not to come to me with a foul unless you have a # and know the signal. I think this helps us to remember to call quality fouls only. No wishy-washy stuff .

James,

With all due respect, facemask calls can be hard sometimes to pick a number with multiple hands and tacklers on a ball carrier. I agree that you should have a number on most fouls, but not on facemask calls all the time. This is not something I get upset by. If my crew members give a number, it might be the wrong number. I would rather you not give me a number, then make one up and he was not in the play or in the game.

Peace

[bateyes]

Gotta go with BBR on this one. Fla. st. vs Fl. game last week good example. 5 yard FM called 1st half same thing 2ed half although neither were just grasping. If Steve Shaws crew does this, Im sure alot of us are guilty also.

[BktBallRef]

It's a very widespread issue. I've seen it a number of times this season in college games on TV, in local college games where I've worked the chains, as well as locally and on TV HS games. There were two today in the 1st quarter of the Bayou Classic.

If a foul that effects the play occurs, a flag needs to be thrown and the proper call made. We've gotten so concerned about not throwing too many flags that we're ignoring obvious fouls. The game has to be officiated. Some of us need to grow some balls.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
It's a very widespread issue. I've seen it a number of times this season in college games on TV, in local college games where I've worked the chains, as well as locally and on TV HS games. There were two today in the 1st quarter of the Bayou Classic.

If a foul that effects the play occurs, a flag needs to be thrown and the proper call made. We've gotten so concerned about not throwing too many flags that we're ignoring obvious fouls. The game has to be officiated. Some of us need to grow some balls.

You might be right Tony, but the games I see in my region of the country, I see a lot of 15 yard facemask calls. Now maybe the philosophy is different in other parts of the country. Around my area we were told, "When in doubt call the PF." Now that is what I see in the Big Ten (where I many members of my association are working) and even in the NFL games I actually see. Unfortunately I do not see that many NFL games during the football season so I cannot honestly tell you what is typical. I am sure there are conferences or areas of the country that do not take that philosophy toward giving a PF, just like where official might decide to put their flags on their uniform or stand on the wings. I have even called a PF on the runner when they are tying to make a stiff arm and grab the defender's facemask instead. That is why I say it is probably a regional issue as related to a national one. Because when I do watch college football for example, I do see different philosophies used as it relates to certain penalties. One conference may be heavy on calling roughing the passer. Another might use a very specific philosophy towards substitution infractions. Other might not be heavy on either and use a totally different philosophy than what I just stated. I just know what we are taught here in the Midwest and what the conferences in these areas seem to support. I see a lot of 15 yard FM calls in when I watch officials in this region of the country.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Gentlemen, the 5 yard facemask foul has become a scapegoat for us as officials.

I am so tired of seeing officials who do not have the gonads to make the personal foul call when the mask is grabbed and the runner's head is turned or twisted. That's a 15 yard foul. It was not the intent of the rule to allow a 5 yard foul to be called in that situation. The intent was to have the incidental facemask called, as officials were hesitant to throw a 15 yarder, for simply inadvertantly grabbing the mask. Instead, officials are using the 5 yarder as a crutch for the 15 yarder, to penalize the offending team but "too harshly," even though the head is being twisted.

It's bull$hit and I'm tired of seeing it.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox now!

All facemask infractions are 15 yards + 1D if by defense.

There's no possibility of messing the call up by only awarding 5 yards.

[waltjp]

A couple of points here in no particular order.

My crew calls the 15 yarder when warranted. I haven't noticed other crews not making the call when it should be called.

LJ, kudos to you and your crew for making the right call. I expect that the people screaming to 'let them play' are the same folks that screamed at you in the first half for missing a pass interference call.

As for getting the number player committing the foul - sure, it's advisable. But like Rut said, it's not always possible. In my Turkey Day game I flagged B for a facemask. It was a run up the middle. Between the linebackers and defensive lineman and pile of humanity involved in the tackle, as well as me tiptoeing to avoid being taken out on the play, I could not tell whom the arm belonged to. Still, that doesn't change the fact that a foul was committed.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by waltjp
A couple of points here in no particular order.

My crew calls the 15 yarder when warranted. I haven't noticed other crews not making the call when it should be called.

LJ, kudos to you and your crew for making the right call. I expect that the people screaming to 'let them play' are the same folks that screamed at you in the first half for missing a pass interference call.

As for getting the number player committing the foul - sure, it's advisable. But like Rut said, it's not always possible. In my Turkey Day game I flagged B for a facemask. It was a run up the middle. Between the linebackers and defensive lineman and pile of humanity involved in the tackle, as well as me tiptoeing to avoid being taken out on the play, I could not tell whom the arm belonged to. Still, that doesn't change the fact that a foul was committed.

It’s absolutely true it’s not always possible to get a number. And Rut is right, a facemask is one where you might not get a number ,especially if you’re on a wing. But that's not what I’m really looking for or what I’m talking about. Having an # isn’t what’s important. What I want is a quality call. One where you’ve seen the whole thing from start to finish. One that you can say “hey that's a foul, yep that was a foul, buy God now that was a foul “! And then toss your flag. If this is how your calling fouls then 95% of the time your going to have the offender’s #. Then you can report it with confidence.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by James Neil
It’s absolutely true it’s not always possible to get a number. And Rut is right, a facemask is one where you might not get a number ,especially if you’re on a wing. But that's not what I’m really looking for or what I’m talking about. Having an # isn’t what’s important. What I want is a quality call. One where you’ve seen the whole thing from start to finish. One that you can say “hey that's a foul, yep that was a foul, buy God now that was a foul “! And then toss your flag. If this is how your calling fouls then 95% of the time your going to have the offender’s #. Then you can report it with confidence.

Well unfortunately, facemasks are not that way 95% of the time in my view. Many are just people grabbing for deal life and someone grabs the mask. Unless you have a big run or a one on one tackle, getting a number can be hard for any official, not just the wings.

Peace

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Gentlemen, the 5 yard facemask foul has become a scapegoat for us as officials.

I am so tired of seeing officials who do not have the gonads to make the personal foul call when the mask is grabbed and the runner's head is turned or twisted. That's a 15 yard foul. It was not the intent of the rule to allow a 5 yard foul to be called in that situation. The intent was to have the incidental facemask called, as officials were hesitant to throw a 15 yarder, for simply inadvertantly grabbing the mask. Instead, officials are using the 5 yarder as a crutch for the 15 yarder, to penalize the offending team but "too harshly," even though the head is being twisted.

In our last association meeting of the season, our president chided us for exactly the opposite. He told us that we were calling too many of the 15 yard fouls when we should be calling the 5 yard penalties. He prepared a 10 minute Powerpoint presentation on facemask violations.

[BktBallRef]

Do you have it available? Would love to see it.

The 5 yard penalty should be called when the mask is grabbed as incidental contact. Rarely do I see this. Usually it's "grasping and twisting, turning or pulling the face mask." Most players will pull it if they grab it. That's 15 yards, straight from the book.

The case book has great illustrations.

9.4.2 SITUATION F: With second down and five yards to go from B's 30 yard line, A1 throws a pass to eligible A2. Following the reception, A2 inadvertently grasps B1's face mask/helmet opening at B's 15 yard line as B1 attempts to tackle A2 who scores a touchdown.
RULING: In (a), if B accepts the penalty for the inadvertent grasping of the face mask/helmet opening by A2, the score is nullified. Following the penalty enforcement, it will be A's ball first and 10 at B's 20 yard line.

9.4.2 SITUATION G: A1 is tackled by B1 who: (a) grasps A1's face mask/helmet opening momentarily and lets go; (b) has his hand brush across A1's face mask; (c) pulls A1 to the ground by grasping A1's face mask/helmet opening.
RULING: There is no penalty in (b). There is a five-yard penalty in (a) and a 15-yard penalty in (c).

9.4.2 SITUATION H: As B1 attempts to tackle A1 he: (a) grasps A1's face mask/helmet opening which turns the head of A1; or (b) grasps A1's face mask/helmet opening and immediately releases it without twisting, turning, or pulling.
RULING: It is a personal foul in (a) that results in a 15-yard penalty from the end of the run. In (b) B will be assessed a 5-yard penalty from the end of the run because of the incidental face mask.

9.4.2 SITUATION I: As B5 attempts to tackle A6, he has his hand on the helmet but does not have his fingers in the face mask or inside the helmet.
RULING: No foul as B5 did not grasp the helmet opening or face mask.

[Rich]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Do you have it available? Would love to see it.

The 5 yard penalty should be called when the mask is grabbed as incidental contact. Rarely do I see this. Usually it's "grasping and twisting, turning or pulling the face mask." Most players will pull it if they grab it. That's 15 yards, straight from the book.

The case book has great illustrations.

9.4.2 SITUATION F: With second down and five yards to go from B's 30 yard line, A1 throws a pass to eligible A2. Following the reception, A2 inadvertently grasps B1's face mask/helmet opening at B's 15 yard line as B1 attempts to tackle A2 who scores a touchdown.
RULING: In (a), if B accepts the penalty for the inadvertent grasping of the face mask/helmet opening by A2, the score is nullified. Following the penalty enforcement, it will be A's ball first and 10 at B's 20 yard line.

9.4.2 SITUATION G: A1 is tackled by B1 who: (a) grasps A1's face mask/helmet opening momentarily and lets go; (b) has his hand brush across A1's face mask; (c) pulls A1 to the ground by grasping A1's face mask/helmet opening.
RULING: There is no penalty in (b). There is a five-yard penalty in (a) and a 15-yard penalty in (c).

9.4.2 SITUATION H: As B1 attempts to tackle A1 he: (a) grasps A1's face mask/helmet opening which turns the head of A1; or (b) grasps A1's face mask/helmet opening and immediately releases it without twisting, turning, or pulling.
RULING: It is a personal foul in (a) that results in a 15-yard penalty from the end of the run. In (b) B will be assessed a 5-yard penalty from the end of the run because of the incidental face mask.

9.4.2 SITUATION I: As B5 attempts to tackle A6, he has his hand on the helmet but does not have his fingers in the face mask or inside the helmet.
RULING: No foul as B5 did not grasp the helmet opening or face mask.

I'm with you. I am a WH on Friday nights, and I want the 15-yard variety called when it is appropriate. Without looking it up, I'd venture to guess we had 7-8 facemask fouls called this season and perhaps 2 were of the 5-yard variety. If in doubt, it's 15, like Jeff said.

My pet peeve this season (we've talked about this after games, BTW) was that I had two illegal block in the back penalties reported to me by crew members where the foul was on the team not in possession at the time of the hit. Both fouls were legitimate penalties, I agree, but to me these are personal fouls, not "illegal blocks in the back" since there is nothing to block and it's just an ill-advised shot to the back, usually away from the play and usually dangerous.

--Rich