Knees on goal line

[OverAndBack]

Bizarre play today in junior high game. Besides the 80-yard field mentioned in the other thread.

Team A driving towards the goal. They throw a pass to the goal line. A2 is already on his knees at the goal line, with his actual kneecaps in the field of play (not behind the goal line) when he catches the ball.

Player's down right when he establishes possession, right? Ball never broke the plane (that I could see, the play was about 20 yards long and I couldn't get to the goal line in a 2-man game to see).

At first I thought touchdown (I'm a rookie - shoot me) because, quite frankly, I wasn't prepared for that to happen. Referee says no, we're going from right there, a few inches away. Completion, first down and goal, right there (and for good measure, since we had that sloping upward end zone, we moved it out just outside the ten and pretended the 10 was the goal line just for that series). A scored anyway.

But if I ever see that again (God, I hope not), somebody hit me with a ruling so I can look all worldly and wise and stuff.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by OverAndBack


But if I ever see that again (God, I hope not), somebody hit me with a ruling so I can look all worldly and wise and stuff.

Try using NF 8-2-1a "It is a touchdown when a runner advances from the field of play so that the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the opponent s goal line".

[cowbyfan1]

If his knees where just outside the goal line when he caught the ball and he is facing the LOS then common sense would say down just short of the line. This also depends on if the player is leaning back, forward, etc.

[mcrowder]

I can see why you started at the 10, but I think I wouldn't have done that. What would you have done if there was a turnover and B returned the ball? The obvious answer is that you'd have moved it back 10 yards after the return. Would have looked sloppy, but I think your coaches may have gotten it. But what if B scored? Still a score? Or down at the 10. What if B crossed what it thought was the goalline, and A) stopped running and was tackled (is that a late hit? Do you spot him inside the 10 or give the score - he slowed because he crossed what was labelled as the GL) or B) dropped the ball, thinking he'd scored, and the ball was recovered in the EZ (which is actually the area between the 0 and 10, since you "owe" A 10 yards)?

Too many oddities that might occur. Play it from the spot that they got to next time. The slope affects both teams, so ignore it.

[OverAndBack]

Hopefully I won't see that field again.

[cmathews]

The chances of a kid catching the ball with is knees on the ground and being straight up are pretty remote. Those reading this, get down on your knees and pretend you are going to catch a pass...you probably aren't right above your kneecaps...if the kid is falling forward then I would spot it short but the way it sounds (without seeing it live) I would say its pretty tough not to have a touchdown, my guess is the kid was "sitting" on his heels, this would have put the ball across the plane....IMHO...

[OverAndBack]

See, this is what I thought. In my mind, if your kneecaps are on one side of a 2-inch (or whatever it is) line and you're not straight up, the ball is likely over the goal line.

But does the "knee down - player down" principle apply here or not? I'm so confused. I think the opposing coach was saying he was down as soon as he caught the ball, which may be true, but he may have been down with the ball in the end zone). I thought it was a TD. The referee, more seasoned than I, said no. There was no complaint. I was inclined to say TD, but I'm the rookie, I'm going to defer since I don't know for sure and that's why I came here to ask you guys.

[cmathews]

Yeah, the coach was right he was down, but if you look at forward progress, and touchdown definitions, if the ball broke the plane it should have been a TD, but in your shoes I would have done the same thing, defer to the power so to speak...

[chiefgil]

You can drive a Greyhound bus into the end zone; but if the ball ain't on the bus, it ain't a touchdown.

The ball must break the plane.

[waltjp]

I recently witnessed a similar play on a punt. The balled sailed over the head of the receiver, bounced, and started rolling toward the goal line.

Several K players circled the ball and one of the kneeled at the goal line so his knees were still in the field and his feet were in the end zone. He caught the ball in his hands when it rolled to him.

From my vantage point (U - trailing the play) it didn't appear that the ball crossed the goal line. Our BJ blew it dead and signaled Touchback.

During halftime I asked the BJ what happened and he explained that the K player had his feet in the end zone.

Uh…okay.

I guessed he sensed where I was going with this and later stated that the ball was in the end zone.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by waltjp
I recently witnessed a similar play on a punt. The balled sailed over the head of the receiver, bounced, and started rolling toward the goal line.

Several K players circled the ball and one of the kneeled at the goal line so his knees were still in the field and his feet were in the end zone. He caught the ball in his hands when it rolled to him.

From my vantage point (U - trailing the play) it didn't appear that the ball crossed the goal line. Our BJ blew it dead and signaled Touchback.

During halftime I asked the BJ what happened and he explained that the K player had his feet in the end zone.

Uh…okay.

I guessed he sensed where I was going with this and later stated that the ball was in the end zone.

Maybe he's just getting ready to work NFL.

[cmathews]

Originally posted by chiefgil
You can drive a Greyhound bus into the end zone; but if the ball ain't on the bus, it ain't a touchdown.

The ball must break the plane.

what is your point???

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by OverAndBack
See, this is what I thought. In my mind, if your kneecaps are on one side of a 2-inch (or whatever it is) line and you're not straight up, the ball is likely over the goal line.

But does the "knee down - player down" principle apply here or not? I'm so confused. I think the opposing coach was saying he was down as soon as he caught the ball, which may be true, but he may have been down with the ball in the end zone). I thought it was a TD. The referee, more seasoned than I, said no. There was no complaint. I was inclined to say TD, but I'm the rookie, I'm going to defer since I don't know for sure and that's why I came here to ask you guys.

REPLY: O&B...from the way you described this play, I'd really be interested in knowing how your R could possibly have felt that he was in a good position to make the call.

[OverAndBack]

I could not begin to tell you. Except for the fact that he'd been at this a while, and I was finishing my first year. I'm simply not going to open that can of worms.