stoppage of the clock

[jeffb]

1st of all I will not print this and go show someone the answer...the league is telling us the clock should go Exactly like a IL high varsity game and that was all I was trying to get an answer for. I have played the game all the way to the pro level and just wanted to get the answer before the next game.jeff

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mcrowder

My point was that if you are going to work a game for someone, you do it by their rules or you don't work it. This doesn't make those of us who choose (as you don't) to work these games somehow less than you or others who don't choose to work these games. If you don't like their rules ... don't work. Not a big deal. But don't belittle those who do.

I did not belittle anyone. If you feel that way, so be it. But I know the league does not use "IHSA" timing rules. They would not get any official to work it if they did. Not because I say so, they would not pay enough.

Originally posted by mcrowder
I do admit there are a lot of people working these games that do so solely for the money (and some of these guys really suck, and don't care that they suck). However, there are also a good number who are young and trying to get better at their craft. And there are those who are already very good at their job that simply like being there for the kids and their local leagues.

What does that have to do with any post I made? I think you are a little sensitive about what I said. I am only talking about he timing rules and how they are applied to youth football (which is in my area) and why officials work and do not work these leagues. I do not know many officials that would use all the timing rules applied for $25 a game. Then work 4 games in a row that adhere to all those timing rules. It is not about the money. But I would also assume that many of those officials work a game on the other days of the week. That would be a major problem to find officials that could walk if that was the case.

Peace

[mcrowder]

Originally posted by JRutledge
What does that have to do with any post I made?

Sorry. I forgot that I was not allowed to add a comment that might not have something to do with one of your posts.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by jeffb
1st of all I will not print this and go show someone the answer...the league is telling us the clock should go Exactly like a IL high varsity game and that was all I was trying to get an answer for. I have played the game all the way to the pro level and just wanted to get the answer before the next game.jeff

What is the name of the league?

Who is the person you talked to (league position, not actual name)?

Name the officials that worked that game?

I have worked games from Mundelein and Crystal Lake, to Tinley Park and Hillcrest. I have worked Pop Warner and Bill George Leagues. I have also worked other Youth Leagues that are not directly affiliated with any special league. I have never known a league that has told the officials to use timing rules to the letter of HS varsity rules. Now are you saying that the slaughter rule is used that the IHSA uses as well? That is a timing rule. Are you telling me that they play 12 minute quarters as well? Because that sounds vague unless you adhere to all those rules.

You could give me all this information and it still is not going to solve your problem. Unless there is someone that works the league or is familiar as to what the officials are told in that league, no definitive answer can be given. Someone gave you the situations the clock should be started and should be stopped and if that is not good enough, the NF produces rulebooks that we all can purchase. But I will guarantee, there are several exception that you league adheres to. I have had coaches in league like this tell me rules that did not even apply to the league at all or in the league handbook. Most leagues always adhere to NF rules, but state the many things that apply to the eligibility of players and who can do what and who cannot do certain things. And it is not uncommon that the officials are not told about all these exceptions and usually are never given the handbook to see the enforcements that apply.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mcrowder


Sorry. I forgot that I was not allowed to add a comment that might not have something to do with one of your posts.

You can say whatever you feel. But you are the one that got offended by something that had nothing to do with your claim. If you do not want a comment back, why make one in the first place.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BushRef
C'mon rut, you can make it to 4000 by the end of the day if you try really hard.

I am still waiting for you to name one league in my area that adheres to ALL NF TIMING RULES.

Peace

[jeffb]

Man I hope my kids don't get Rut as their ref...oh wait I am sure we do not pay enough for his EXPERTISE.../

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BushRef


And why would I be privy to that information? I live 3,000 miles away from you.

My point exactly.

The bottom line is we can debate, go back and forth about this issue all day. Unless anyone here is sitting on the league committee or has the handbook or the league rules in their possession, this is just a hollow discussion. He can go back and take anything we say, but none of us here have any credibility with that league. Our word means nothing if we do not work the league. We also do not know what the officials were told either. It is possible they were told to run the clock on the ready. It is possible they assumed that is the way the clock was suppose to be operated. It is also possible that the person he talked to "assumed" that was the timing applied, but does not understand the ramifications of that kind of choice. It is also possible that no one ever made an issue of this. We can assume all kind of things, but what anyone says here means nothing. Jeffb can go right to the individuals and throw this in their face and they could dismiss it like an ant on the street. This is just an interesting conversation as to what we think might apply without knowing all the "players" that run the league or who assign the officials.


Peace

[jeffb]

OK finally got through to the league offical who did not want to be named and confirmed we play 10 min stop clock and we defintely stop the clock on all change of pos. As he said just now we play just like the IL high varsity does.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by jeffb
OK finally got through to the league offical who did not want to be named and confirmed we play 10 min stop clock and we defintely stop the clock on all change of pos. As he said just now we play just like the IL high varsity does.

You said they started it on the ready. I thought that was your beef? Not whether the clock stopped on the change of possession.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BushRef
No hard feelings Rut.

None taken.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by jeffb
OK finally got through to the league offical who did not want to be named and confirmed we play 10 min stop clock and we defintely stop the clock on all change of pos. As he said just now we play just like the IL high varsity does.

Everyone knows the clock stops on a change of possession. I thought you wanted to know when the clock restarted?

[JRutledge]

"We play in a youth football league which follows the IHSA rules. We play 10 min. stop clock game. The ref's are saying on a change of possesion you start the clock when the ball is put into play by them not at the snap...Is this right or did we have 3 guys working their fourth game that wanted to get out of there??

This was his question word for word.

I am not sure what he wanted now.

Peace

[mikesears]

Originally posted by jeffb
I am being told by league officals the call would be whatever the call would be in a IL high school game and what might that be?????

Per NF rule, the clock starts on the snap after a change of possession.

But those officials who have said that many youth leagues have modifications to timing rules (amongst other things) are correct. Seems each youth league determines their own modifications and expects the officials to keep them all straight. I work three different youth leagues in my area with three different sets of modifications to the standard NF rules.

If there is no modification to the timingf rule by the league then the official(s) either blew the rule or wanted the game to end early.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by JRutledge
They would not get any official to work it if they did. Not because I say so, they would not pay enough.

Jeff,

You should come work down here in my area. (I know you aren't interested, just thought i'd share). Most of the youth leagues in this area pay either the equivalent of what we'd make for a JV game ($40 a game) and SOME pay the equivalent of what we would make for a varsity game ($50 a game).

The only difference is that we usually work 3-man crews (which isn't all that much different than some of the Freshman and JV games we work). We have 1 youth league in my area that pays for a 4-man crew for the Jr High games.



[Edited by mikesears on Sep 10th, 2004 at 08:20 AM]