muff on a punt

yankeesfan · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 02:37pm

R muffs a punt at his own ten yard line, after a scramble for the ball,(A) k recovers in its own endzone, or (B) the ball goes through the endzone out of bounds. what happens in both those situations?

Jim S · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:15pm

In a it is a safety because the kick never ended and the force involved is K's kick. 90 yard force play what???

Assuming you mean K's endline in b. the same applies.
It doesn't seem right, but that's the case

Theisey · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by yankeesfan
R muffs a punt at his own ten yard line, after a scramble for the ball,(A) k recovers in its own endzone, or (B) the ball goes through the endzone out of bounds. what happens in both those situations?

Maybe you could clarify something here or at least for me... 'R' as muffed a kick at their 10 yard line and in (A) you are asking what the result is if the ball is recovered by 'K' in their endzone?
You sure you don't mean 'R's endzone? I can't envision the ball being muffed 90 yards downfield into 'K's endzone.

(A) If I may assume the endzone was really 'R's endzone, the result (NF) is that 'K' recovered a dead ball and it is 'R's ball the the R-20 due to a touchback.
(B) touchback.

jumpmaster · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Theisey
(A) If I may assume the endzone was really 'R's endzone, the result (NF) is that 'K' recovered a dead ball and it is 'R's ball the the R-20 due to a touchback.

[/B]

why is this a touchback and not a touchdown for R?

Jim S · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:52pm

Jumpmaster. First off if it was in R's EZ it can't be a TD for R can it.
But in either case under fed rules a kick is dead when it crosses the goalline of R. So in either situation (Recover or going over the endline) the ball would be long dead. The force for putting the ball into the EZ is still K's kick, and the result a TB.

Theisey · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 07:18pm

Thank you Jim.
Jumpmaster: the play as written is not clear and we tried to clear that up with some assumptions or assertions made to the play.
I was hoping Yankeesan would come back and correct what appears to Jim and I to be confusion over just which EZ the ball is actually declared dead in. As Jim points out, there is no TD for "R" and I'll add no matter which EZ is the correct one.

yankeesfan · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 07:40pm

i am sorry, i meant R's endzone. everyone was right, it was not a 90 yard muff. sorry for the confusion. is it a touchback in both situations?

Tundra Ref · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 08:18pm

Touchback in both situations as soon as the ball crosses the goal line since a muff doesn't end the kick.

jumpmaster · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 07:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim S
Jumpmaster. First off if it was in R's EZ it can't be a TD for R can it.
But in either case under fed rules a kick is dead when it crosses the goalline of R. So in either situation (Recover or going over the endline) the ball would be long dead. The force for putting the ball into the EZ is still K's kick, and the result a TB.

ahhhh! I forgot the force factor. 2-13-4. Duh.

keystoneref · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 09:57pm

Jumpmaster keep this in mind. Force is never a factor on any kicks going into R's endzone (2-13-4a). The ball is dead as soon as it broke the plane of R's endzone, so it doesn't matter who caused the ball to enter the end zone.