Suplimental Signals

[ABoselli]

To identify eligibles.

[Dale Smith]

Originally posted by JasonTX

Why even punch the widest man off?

JasonTX
As a Linesman I want to know if my Line Judge has the player closest to him on or off the line. If both wings are punching a player off the line both had better be double counting backs. I don’t want to guess that a wideout is off the line, throw a flag for a six man line, and then when I report the foul have the LJ tell me that his guy was on the line. This is just a matter of communication between wings.

ScottV
You would be surprised at the amount of not verbal communication the goes on between officials at the NCAA and NFL level. Please remember that at D1 and NFL games, it is darn near impossible to hear due to crowd noise. You generally can not pick up the signals on TV. When you go to a NCAA game pick one position and watch him all game. You might see a wing pat his leg or tug on his flag prior to the snap. He just sent a message to the other wing.

Dale Smith

[JasonTX]

[/B][/QUOTE]
JasonTX
As a Linesman I want to know if my Line Judge has the player closest to him on or off the line. If both wings are punching a player off the line both had better be double counting backs. I don’t want to guess that a wideout is off the line, throw a flag for a six man line, and then when I report the foul have the LJ tell me that his guy was on the line. This is just a matter of communication between wings.

Dale Smith
[/B][/QUOTE]

We just touch the bill of our hat to signal that we have 3 players on the line on my side of the snappper. If we got 4 or 2 then we put a hand on side of face to signal unbalanced. Whatever works best and this is always things that should be discussed during the pregame so that both wings are on the same page. Bottom line is to make sure you got 7 players on the LOS and whatever signal is used will work for me.

[Theisey]

You a wing man? If not, it helps me and my partner on the other side easily determine when we have four or more off the line (in conjuction the "I've got 11 from the referee).

I don't work 5-man mechanics anymore but I recall it did at one time, maybe still does have signifigance for the Bjudge key.

[Coach Gerry Faust]

At the end of a play when the Clock Stops, we tell each other before the play that it is AUTOMATIC.(Stopping)
Like on 4th down!
We use a signal to remind the Crew;I can not remember it in MAY! It works well.
It was something I learned at my first game!
If I knew that in High School we could have all
sprinted to the Officials at the end of the play to avoid
them from signaling the clock guy/girl to stop!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ljudge

2) 2 players between you and snapper on LOS - "roll away" same signal as false start

3) 4 players between you and snapper on LOS - "roll to" same signal as false start except roll opposite way (toward you)

Can you really tell the difference between a "forward" and "reverse" roll from across the field?

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Can you really tell the difference between a "forward" and "reverse" roll from across the field?

I was also thinking the same thing, even from close I would have to think about what it actually was.

[jjrye22]

Why are some associations so worried about unbalanced lines? Is there some importance to it? As a LM/LJ where I am we check the backfield, and thats all.

We also use
- Punch back for off the line
- Grab the hat for on the line - but it is not mandatory
- Fists crossed over chest to indicate 4th down - clock will stop
- Wiggle both index finger to remind about 'Double Sticks'
- U or R will do a 'roll forward' signal (like for a False Start) to indicate that O is 'going for it' - pay out 4th down instead of kick, or an obvious 2 point PAT, obvious onside FK

and some of our older refs pat their beanbag on 4th down to remind about the fumble rule.

James

[JasonTX]

Originally posted by Theisey
You a wing man? If not, it helps me and my partner on the other side easily determine when we have four or more off the line (in conjuction the "I've got 11 from the referee).

I don't work 5-man mechanics anymore but I recall it did at one time, maybe still does have signifigance for the Bjudge key.

Primarily I work R, but on occasion I will work on the wing. Our chapter used to punch back, but we got away from that since counting the backs doesn't guarantee a legal formation. Of course you can use the "I've got 11" from the R but around here that signal means "I've got 11 or less" Maybe there should be a change in rules that will allow 6 players on the line as long as there were no more than 4 in the backfield.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by JasonTX

Primarily I work R, but on occasion I will work on the wing. Our chapter used to punch back, but we got away from that since counting the backs doesn't guarantee a legal formation. Of course you can use the "I've got 11" from the R but around here that signal means "I've got 11 or less" Maybe there should be a change in rules that will allow 6 players on the line as long as there were no more than 4 in the backfield.

You don't have a signal for having 11 players ONLY? Most crews use fist at shoulder height. I make sure my wings acknowledge the signal. If we have fewer than eleven, I signal with an open hand (like signaling "5"). If we have more than eleven, I signal with two thumbs up, make eye contact with my umpire, then throw the flag.

[jransom]

Originally posted by jjrye22
Why are some associations so worried about unbalanced lines? Is there some importance to it? As a LM/LJ where I am we check the backfield, and thats all.

We also use
- Punch back for off the line
- Grab the hat for on the line - but it is not mandatory
- Fists crossed over chest to indicate 4th down - clock will stop
- Wiggle both index finger to remind about 'Double Sticks'
- U or R will do a 'roll forward' signal (like for a False Start) to indicate that O is 'going for it' - pay out 4th down instead of kick, or an obvious 2 point PAT, obvious onside FK

and some of our older refs pat their beanbag on 4th down to remind about the fumble rule.

James

My reply is not necessarily directed to the above poster, but his message is the epitomy of this thread.

The manual states, "Poorly executed or unauthorized signals serve only to confuse the situation and impair communication." Although this statement is generally regarding signals used for the sake of the coaches & fans, it also has some implication toward crew signals.
When I started 3 years ago doing lower level games, there were as many different signals as the number of games I did. I never knew from one game to the next what the wing across from me was trying to communicate. For lower-level here, we don't have much of a pre-game; but even if you have one, the newer guys are going to see something different each time they go out. I have no problem with tapping fists one on top of another to signal "we're stopping the clock after this play, no matter what, because it's 4th down" if that's what your association preaches. What I take issue with is using a signal prescribed by the manual for something that it's not intended for. Fists crossed over chest is double stakes, nothing else. Rolling fists between the U & R should be for protecting the snapper, not a non-kicking situation.

We need to be concernd with unbalanced lines because they create players "carrying the brick"--situations where, if nothing else, it's not a bad idea to double-check your line count by HL and numbering & ineligibles by U.

"Punching off" doesn't help anyone unless you're a LJ and your HL actually counts all the players on the line by himself. I find myself doing it anyway--it helps me remember to identify eligibles on my side.

pat their beanbag? what fumble rule? That's NCAA, or it used to be anyway.

[Theisey]

That team-A has 11 signal means just that.... team-A has 11. It is not used up this way for anything else. Therefore the formation can be gauranteed.
Coaches had been sending in film time after time complaining about covered receivers or not enough players on the line. That has been reduced drastically by the punch back and use of team-A has 11.
If you have a better way that works for you, by all means continue to use it. I'll not complain.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by jransom
[James [/B]

(snip)..
What I take issue with is using a signal prescribed by the manual for something that it's not intended for. Fists crossed over chest is double stakes, nothing else. Rolling fists between the U & R should be for protecting the snapper, not a non-kicking situation.
...(snip)
[/B][/QUOTE]

If appears you are new to officating and even this board. The above two officials communications signals are used totally differently if your game is NF vs NCAA. So while you can take issue, be careful who you take issue with. This is not just an NCAA only nor NF only place to discuss rules and mechanics. Many posters here work high school games under NCAA rules as that's what their state allows.

Besides many rule differences, there are many mechanics differences as well.

[jjrye22]

Originally posted by Theisey
Besides many rule differences, there are many mechanics differences as well. [/B]

True. We work NCAA rules, but there are quite a few deviations (I'm in Germany). I've learned quite a bit about the rule differences between NCAA and NF, but this is the first discussion I've read about mechanics differences. I hadn't really thought there would be many differences, but obviously there are.
Even more confusing, we all seem to use the same signals, but have different emphasis.

James

[JMN]

I lean towards simplification and not overdoing the mechanics as well as striving for consistency across our community.

I've often wondered why the mechanics are different between high school and college with the exception of those mandated by the NCAA vs. FED codes (e.g. 4th down fumble rule). Certainly, 6 or 7 man mechanics vs. 4 or 5 man mechanics play a role, but when I read through the above threads and see how many mechanics some of you use, my hat is off to you (even though I personally think it's way too many). Heck, I have a tough time counting the players when I'm working the flanks!

Pretty soon there will be a mechanic for a wing back that starts in motion, then resets for one second, and then goes in motion the other direction, and then resets, and then motion again. It will be the index finger moved quickly up and down across the lips while you make a mumbling sound!

While we're at it, how about other "NEW" mechanics to add to the arsenal. We might as well have some fun with this.