Here's a play

[Snake~eyes]

Here's a play, it's very unlikely that this would happen to you but what would you do.


Team A gets a safety and has to kick/punt to team B. As the teams are lining up for the kick, the team B coach asks the nearest official if the ball is live if they punt it. The official says if they punt it the ball is not live and is like a normal punt. Whaddya know, Team A punts the ball and team B coach is yelling get away from the ball, they do so and Team A recovers after the ball has hit the ground and gone ten yards. Now you've got a mess, you are the WH, what do you do now?

[ABoselli]

Give K the ball where they recovered it, explain to the coach what happened, fire that official - in that order.

[Ed Hickland]

Oh my gosh! What a mess.

First, I would call a conference just to make sure the official said what was reported by the coach.

This is a situation where somebody is not going to be satisfied no matter what you do. Therefore, I would have a "do over." It will take about ten minutes to peel Coach A off the clouds.

Now I hope this happens in the second half because that official is due one tongue lashing for not knowing the rules and would not want him returning in the second half with his rear-end missing.

Personally, I hope there is no official who does not understand the difference between a scrimmage kick and a free kick and that a kick after a safety is a free kick. However, there are those who come to the game to pick up the check.

[Middleman]

Originally posted by Ed Hickland
Oh my gosh! What a mess.

First, I would call a conference just to make sure the official said what was reported by the coach.

This is a situation where somebody is not going to be satisfied no matter what you do. Therefore, I would have a "do over." It will take about ten minutes to peel Coach A off the clouds.

You have no mess, you have K's ball. By rule. And you certainly have NO BASIS for a do-over.

The conference you have will be the coach/referee conference in which you are explaining that it is a free kick and there will be no reversal of the call. Charge him with a time-out and move on.

But the worst thing you could do would be to penalize K for knowing the rule, and benefit R for not knowing it. You simply cannot take the ball away from K. Can't be done.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by Middleman

You have no mess, you have K's ball. By rule. And you certainly have NO BASIS for a do-over.

The conference you have will be the coach/referee conference in which you are explaining that it is a free kick and there will be no reversal of the call. Charge him with a time-out and move on.

But the worst thing you could do would be to penalize K for knowing the rule, and benefit R for not knowing it. You simply cannot take the ball away from K. Can't be done.

Got a little carried away. While coaches should know the rules, officials have absolutely no choice.

The unfortunate reality is Coach B/R will have no faith in the official on his side for the remainder of the game and may well disrespect the entire crew as coaches tend to do.

[Snake~eyes]

I think you have to have a redo. I agree with Ed, the coach will not have any faith in any of the calls he makes for the rest of the game.

[Middleman]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
I think you have to have a redo. I agree with Ed, the coach will not have any faith in any of the calls he makes for the rest of the game.

Can't do it, Snakester. You have ONE official - NOT the Referee - who opened his yap out of order, and a coach who didn't know the rules. So the referee straightens him out, he's unhappy and you move on. So now you have ONE coach who has lost faith in ONE official.

If you have a do-over as you suggest, you will be giving the Royal Screw to the coach who knew his stuff. And he will lose faith in YOU, the REFEREE, and your entire crew, not just the one official, for screwing up and screwing him. Furthermore you will be providing an unfair advantage to the first coach and his team. You go to him and waffle about how sorry you are that it happened and, oh, it'll be okay because we're going to have a do-over. Once he realizes your lack of command of the game he too will lose faith in YOU, the REFEREE, and your entire crew, not just the one official.

So, you have positive rule coverage for what happened, you have no basis for a do-over, and you have TWO coaches who have lost faith in the ENTIRE CREW.

Can't do it.

[Rick KY]

You've got to tell R coach that it's K's ball, free kick rules apply. Then you've got to reprimand the official who told him otherwise as soon as the half or game ends, not during the game.

But this should be handled just like any other call in the game, get it right and admit errors when you make one.

[mcrowder]

I'd love to see anyone backup their claim of a do-over. (Either here with a rule quote, or later, after they run the play over with no backup in the rules, and have the play reported to your association).

Would you rather play the game by the rules and reprimand (or fire) the offending official later, or make up your own rules and have the entire crew fired?

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by mcrowder
I'd love to see anyone backup their claim of a do-over. (Either here with a rule quote, or later, after they run the play over with no backup in the rules, and have the play reported to your association).

Would you rather play the game by the rules and reprimand (or fire) the offending official later, or make up your own rules and have the entire crew fired?

That is a great question.

Consider. Because of this official's misexplanation, Coach A goes berserk and yells an obscenity at the referee. He is tossed and reprimanded with a one game suspension. He fires back that the crew cost him the championship and spreads the word among his fellow coaches who blackball the crew.

Or, the game is in Georgia. Coach A or Coach B protests that this misexplanation costs him a position in the playoffs. The Geogia authroities agree and the game has to be played over from the point of the error.

Or, you decide to do a do-over. Coach B is livid and yells and screams on the sideline for 20 minutes inflamming the spectators to the point that they start throwing objects on the field. The referee and his crew must leave the field in fear of possibly getting struck by flying objects. The fams riot outside the locker room necessitiating the local police forcibly removing them from the premises and arresting three fans. The officials receive a police escort out of the county.

There is no substitute for knowing the rules!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Hickland
[B]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Consider. Because of this official's misexplanation, Coach A goes berserk and yells an obscenity at the referee. He is tossed and reprimanded with a one game suspension. He fires back that the crew cost him the championship and spreads the word among his fellow coaches who blackball the crew.

Or, the game is in Georgia. Coach A or Coach B protests that this misexplanation costs him a position in the playoffs. The Geogia authroities agree and the game has to be played over from the point of the error.

Or, you decide to do a do-over. Coach B is livid and yells and screams on the sideline for 20 minutes inflamming the spectators to the point that they start throwing objects on the field. The referee and his crew must leave the field in fear of possibly getting struck by flying objects. The fams riot outside the locker room necessitiating the local police forcibly removing them from the premises and arresting three fans. The officials receive a police escort out of the county.

Need to get away? Fly Southwest Airlines.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

[JMN]

Another good reason for officials to maintain a formal relationship (vs. informal) on their sideline and to keep their mouths shut unless 110% sure of a rule. I find that I get in trouble faster when the coach is trying to be my buddy (calling me by first name, chatting between plays, etc.) Nothing wrong with good sideline communication. In fact, last season, that was my primary area of focus to improve my game. However, it must remain a business relationship.

We all have some blind spots in our rules knowledge. Knowing where those are, studying to eliminate them, and keeping our mouths shut when unsure of the proper rule is a basic mechanic we can all benefit from.

And, no do-over's. Whatever lumps you take, you take as a team. We cannot placate a coach, fans, announcers, whatever by performing outside of the rules to fix our mistakes. If we can fix our mistakes within the rules, fine. If not, our crew takes a lump and we make sure it doesn't happen again.

Repeat this 100 times and send it in an email to all of your coaches: "We are not perfect. Periodically, we make mistakes. Don't try this at home"

[Tundra Ref]

I would allow a replay of the down if I was doing a level 8th grade or down, simply because the fans and coaches are more accepting of a mistake by the refs because they realize that the refs are, like the kids, learning the basics. In a high school game, you absolutely can not replay it. If the refs don't know the basics, they shouldn't even be working high school level games in the first place. I acknowledge that errors will always occur, but when doing varsity games MUST have solid knowledge of the rules because, let's face it, even at the HS level more is on the line than just a game (coach's jobs, AD jobs, playoffs, scholarships, town pride, etc.). Officials working this level and up are, and should be, expected to take the game seriously enough to have a thorough understanding of the rules.

[FredFan7]

First of all, no do-over. Yes, the wingman led the coach down that path, but the rules do not allow for a do-over.

Second, that wingman should have his rear end chewed off.

Third, if I were on the wing, and I didn't know the rule or had a question, and the coach asked me a rules question, I'd say to the coach, "let me double check that for you," and go see the WH.

If I had a question about the free kick rules after a safety, I'd ask the WH something like, "this is just like a kickoff right? Live ball after 10 yards?" I'd ask this BEFORE taking my free kick position.

It never hurts to ask your fellow officials questions, and I don't think it hurts you if you tell a coach you'll check a rule for him, if you aren't 100% sure.

A quick conference would have quickly resolved the question, and saved the crew from the gaffe of their respective careers.

Did this really happen?

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by FredFan7
It never hurts to ask your fellow officials questions, and I don't think it hurts you if you tell a coach you'll check a rule for him, if you aren't 100% sure.

Absolutely! Always ask questions when unsure, ask questions when there is any doubt. We do it all the time, verbally and with signals. We use signals for the down and players on the field. Communication between a crew is crucial. You have to stick together and ask questions. It doesn't hurt at all to say "Coach let me make sure," then go ask. Good point Fred, this could have easily been prevented had it happened, but still what if?

Originally posted by FredFan7
Did this really happen?

No it didn't, I just thought about it one day and was wondering what everyone would do, it is a really sticky situation and it is also very unlikely it would happen.