The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 08:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 69
Free kick situation

Opening kick off Friday night. Ball kicked toward sideline. Checks up and stops 1 inch from the sideline at the R11 yard line. R comes up straddles the sideline and picks the ball up. What do you have?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 08:55am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Ball down at the 11. K did not kick the ball out of bounds, R is responsible for the ball being ruled out of bounds.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 08:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Ball down at the 11. K did not kick the ball out of bounds, R is responsible for the ball being ruled out of bounds.

Peace

That's exactly what we did .....however, I believe should have been illegal participation. As R intentionally went out of bounds and participating in the play by touching the ball.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 09:39am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomes1978 View Post
That's exactly what we did .....however, I believe should have been illegal participation. As R intentionally went out of bounds and participating in the play by touching the ball.
Well that is the only way that you can have a IP on R. If they accidentally go out of bounds and be legal. For that classification, you really HTBT.

But based on the OP, all it said is he went out of bounds. How matters and I would not assume that unless it was stated or saw the play myself to make that determination. But in this case it would have be be obvious to make that ruling.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 09:44am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
Free kick situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Ball down at the 11. K did not kick the ball out of bounds, R is responsible for the ball being ruled out of bounds.



Peace


If R is out of bounds, by rule this is a KOB.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 10:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
If R is out of bounds, by rule this is a KOB.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
So this brings up my next question regarding this play....rule 6-2-9 states "a free kick should not be kicked out of bounds between the goal line untouched INBOUNDS by R". The ball was never touched inbounds by R...
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 10:07am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomes1978 View Post
So this brings up my next question regarding this play....rule 6-2-9 states "a free kick should not be kicked out of bounds between the goal line untouched INBOUNDS by R". The ball was never touched inbounds by R...
I'm with you. This is a kickoff out of bounds (KOB).
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 10:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well that is the only way that you can have a IP on R. If they accidentally go out of bounds and be legal. For that classification, you really HTBT.

But based on the OP, all it said is he went out of bounds. How matters and I would not assume that unless it was stated or saw the play myself to make that determination. But in this case it would have be be obvious to make that ruling.

Peace
He was not blocked out of bounds....he was out of bounds all by himself....but yes, it was obvious he knew he was out of bounds as he picked the ball up and did not try to run or anything.....
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 10:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I'm with you. This is a kickoff out of bounds (KOB).
So double foul with Illegal Participation? Re-kick?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 10:22am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
I'm likely just going with a KOB. He likely intentionally played the ball, but that's not a foul unless he *intentionally went out of bounds*, which is unlikely.

Case play 6.1.9 Situation C, (b).

Redding Example 6-12, page 51.

Unless one is 100% that the player *intentionally went out of bounds*, it's simply a free kick out of bounds and R has its 4 options (and will likely take the ball on the 35 on that side's inbounds spot).
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 11:01am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomes1978 View Post
He was not blocked out of bounds....he was out of bounds all by himself....but yes, it was obvious he knew he was out of bounds as he picked the ball up and did not try to run or anything.....
A and K are the only players that cannot accidentally go out of bounds. Trying to make a play on the ball and touching the line by B and R is not illegal.

I get it we are splitting hairs, but that is not how the rule reads. B and R must go out intentionally as stated in 9-6-2. So the issue is if you determine it was done on purpose for this part of the fouling situation.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 11:13am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
If R is out of bounds, by rule this is a KOB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I'm likely just going with a KOB. He likely intentionally played the ball, but that's not a foul unless he *intentionally went out of bounds*, which is unlikely.

Case play 6.1.9 Situation C, (b).

Redding Example 6-12, page 51.

Unless one is 100% that the player *intentionally went out of bounds*, it's simply a free kick out of bounds and R has its 4 options (and will likely take the ball on the 35 on that side's inbounds spot).
Maybe I am reading this play wrong from the OP, but the ball stopped and came to rest correct? If that is the case, I do not see your play as a justification for a Free-Kick Infraction. Honestly, I do not care what Redding says about this play because that for all intensive purposes is not official. If the ball is at rest and the player runs up to get the ball and accidentally steps out of bounds before the possession or even touching the football, K is not responsible for a foul here. The Case Play you referenced talks about a player reaching through the sideline to make a catch on the out of bounds side. That is not what happened here from my reading in the OP. If it is I stand corrected, but not what I understood in this play.

If my original thought is correct, I have the ball is out on the 11 by the actions of R and give the ball 1st and 10 at the 11.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 11:17am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Maybe I am reading this play wrong from the OP, but the ball stopped and came to rest correct? If that is the case, I do not see your play as a justification for a Free-Kick Infraction. Honestly, I do not care what Redding says about this play because that for all intensive purposes is not official. If the ball is at rest and the player runs up to get the ball and accidentally steps out of bounds before the possession or even touching, K is not responsible for a foul here. The Case Play you referenced talks about a player reaching through the sideline to make a catch on the out of bounds side. That is not what happened here from my reading. If it is I stand corrected, but not what I understood in this play.

If my original thought is correct, I have the ball is out on the 11 by the actions of R and give the ball 1st and 10 at the 11.

Peace
Sorry, but the interpretation is the same at the NFHS and NCAA levels. The status of R is out of bounds and therefore a live ball touched (or was touched by) an out of bounds player, making it out of bounds untouched by an inbounds R player.

R has to have inbounds status for the ball to be considered touched by R inbounds.

I'm using Redding as an example only.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 11:30am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Sorry, but the interpretation is the same at the NFHS and NCAA levels. The status of R is out of bounds and therefore a live ball touched (or was touched by) an out of bounds player, making it out of bounds untouched by an inbounds R player.

R has to have inbounds status for the ball to be considered touched by R inbounds.

I'm using Redding as an example only.
But that is not the example given in the play you referenced. I am not arguing that the interpretation of a ball in flight goes on the out of bounds side and R reaches for it it would be a foul on K. I agree that is the case, but that is not this play we are discussing now. This play involves the only thing that makes the ball go out of bounds is the actions by R. If R leaves the ball alone we have a live ball that anyone can go after. We have a live ball that K can take possession of if they get to it. I need another reference to be sure and that is what I am looking for. That is the case I could be out of bounds as R (however I got there) and "punch" the ball completely inbounds and K has fouled because I am completely out of bounds. I am not convinced that is the ruling based on other rulings I have seen over the years.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 24, 2018, 11:37am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
But that is not the example given in the play you referenced. I am not arguing that the interpretation of a ball in flight goes on the out of bounds side and R reaches for it it would be a foul on K. I agree that is the case, but that is not this play we are discussing now. This play involves the only thing that makes the ball go out of bounds is the actions by R. If R leaves the ball alone we have a live ball that anyone can go after. We have a live ball that K can take possession of if they get to it. I need another reference to be sure and that is what I am looking for. That is the case I could be out of bounds as R (however I got there) and "punch" the ball completely inbounds and K has fouled because I am completely out of bounds. I am not convinced that is the ruling based on other rulings I have seen over the years.

Peace
When a receiving team player who is out of bounds is the first to touch a kick, the kicking team has caused the ball to go out of bounds. It does not matter if the ball is inside the plane of the sideline when it is touched.

Definitions here -- what gives the ball out of bounds status? 2-29-3 -- a loose ball is out of bounds when it touches anything, including a player or game official that is out of bounds.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
onsides kick on the free kick BuggBob Football 7 Tue Dec 06, 2011 05:29pm
Drop kick on Free kick, on 40 or behind it? airraider Football 6 Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:43am
Another Kick question (free kick) referee20 Football 15 Wed Sep 16, 2009 08:14pm
Kick situation ChickenOfNC Football 10 Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:42pm
scrimmage kick situation kentref Football 5 Sun Sep 25, 2005 05:22pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1