Couple of Question-Injury TO and RFP.

[Scooby]

1. On injury TO what conferences cane the teams have with their coaches?
2. In situations like an false start, that the penalty is enforced quickly, 8-12 seconds. How long should the referee wait until signaling the Ready for Play.

[Rich]

1. Depends on the injury. If it's an extended break, the teams can go the sideline and the coach can talk to them there. We keep the coach off the field. Or we let a manager bring water to the middle if they don't want to go out.

2. Right away. Then again, my pace normally is pretty quick.


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[OKREF]

In my part of Rome, for an injury we send them to the numbers, where they can met with coaches, water...

For the other, I'm like Rich, my pace is pretty quick.

[JRutledge]

They can have any legal conference that the rules allow, which is the two types. One in the middle of the field with one coach and the other with everyone on the sideline or outside the numbers. Usually, we send them to the sidelines when it is clear there is an injury.

I run the RFP when the player is clearly off the field and safe for him, the people taking care of him and the players that would be in the game at the time.

Peace

[HLin NC]

Didn't the Fed proscribe several years ago that we were to send teams to their sideline for an officials' injury time-out. I don't see it in Rule 3, may have been in POE or commentary.

[scrounge]

I've met so many officials who say that they can't go outside the numbers (btwn numbers and sideline) and there can't be any coaching. I have no idea where this myth came from, but apparently it's the football equivalent of the hands are part of the bat.

Admittedly, the rule book doesn't outright state "here's the type of conference you can have during an injury time out" but it can be pieced together, though again it's a bit of spaghetti code to get there.

From 3-5-8, Authorized Conferences, in subsection 3-5-8 c, we see that only an outside the 9 yd mark conference (between numbers and sideline) can be held in a situation for 3-5-8 a (3). So what does 3-5-8 a (3) deal with? It deals with a time out granted by the official in 3-5-10. So we hop over to 3-5-10. That's the various official's time outs, which right in section 3-5-10 a is the time out for injury.

So not only CAN they take an outside the 9 yd mark conference, it's actually the ONLY type of conference they can take, by rule. I have no idea where the 'no coaching' part came from - we're really going to police what they say? But a lot think it, for whatever reason.

As to the second question, wait till the ball is placed. Start that baby up as soon as possible.

[HLin NC]

Scrounge- I started in '94 and I can remember referee's being quite picky back then about conferring near the sideline. Of course, back then I don't think the outside the Nine's was an allowable conference at that point.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Scrounge- I started in '94 and I can remember referee's being quite picky back then about conferring near the sideline. Of course, back then I don't think the outside the Nine's was an allowable conference at that point.

I started two years later, I do not think that was allowed either. We might have only allowed that when there was an extended injury or a water break.

Peace

[Middleman]

From the OP:

1. On injury TO what conferences cane the teams have with their coaches?

Reply:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They can have any legal conference that the rules allow, which is the two types. One in the middle of the field with one coach and the other with everyone on the sideline or outside the numbers. Usually, we send them to the sidelines when it is clear there is an injury.

This is not completely accurate. Rule 3-5-8c requires an Outside the 9-yard Mark Conference. If an official stops the clock for an apparently injured player, or the clock is already stopped and an apparently injured played is discovered delaying the ready-for-play, it is an official's time-out. From the Case Book, "Any conference during the official's time-out must be held outside the 9-yard marks." (See CB 3.5.10 Situation A) Further, if the coach's request for a charged time-out is granted before the injured player is discovered, either type of conference may be used.

[Middleman]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I've met so many officials who say that they can't go outside the numbers (btwn numbers and sideline) and there can't be any coaching. I have no idea where this myth came from, but apparently it's the football equivalent of the hands are part of the bat.

I have no idea where the 'no coaching' part came from - we're really going to police what they say? But a lot think it, for whatever reason.

That used to be the rule. No coaching was permitted during the period that the injured player was being attended. A coach was permitted to request a time-out only after the injured player was removed. This was in place to prevent a free time-out/conference by a player faking an injury.

Rule 9 (current rule 9-8-1f) was amended - I don't know how long ago, perhaps 35 or more years ago - to clarify that "Between downs, communications between players and coaches near the sideline are not considered conferences, as defined in 2-6." Coaches have to stay off the field, players have to stay on the field. Well, this morphed (as you say, who is policing it?) into what amounted to an illegal sideline conference during an injury, and few, if any, Referees were inclined to enforce it. So Rules 3-5-8a(3) and 3-5-8c were added to permit the Outside 9-yard Mark Conference.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Middleman

From the OP:

Reply:

This is not completely accurate. Rule 3-5-8c requires an Outside the 9-yard Mark Conference. If an official stops the clock for an apparently injured player, or the clock is already stopped and an apparently injured played is discovered delaying the ready-for-play, it is an official's time-out. From the Case Book, "Any conference during the official's time-out must be held outside the 9-yard marks." (See CB 3.5.10 Situation A) Further, if the coach's request for a charged time-out is granted before the injured player is discovered, either type of conference may be used.

We sent them to the sideline anyway. We do not split hairs with this anymore. It is easier to navigate and no questions of what type of conference they had or if they had two different ones. Again, in our area everyone pretty much attempts to go to the sideline. We just make sure they are outside the numbers or tick marks to accomplish this.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I've met so many officials who say that they can't go outside the numbers (btwn numbers and sideline) and there can't be any coaching. I have no idea where this myth came from, but apparently it's the football equivalent of the hands are part of the bat.

Admittedly, the rule book doesn't outright state "here's the type of conference you can have during an injury time out" but it can be pieced together, though again it's a bit of spaghetti code to get there.

From 3-5-8, Authorized Conferences, in subsection 3-5-8 c, we see that only an outside the 9 yd mark conference (between numbers and sideline) can be held in a situation for 3-5-8 a (3). So what does 3-5-8 a (3) deal with? It deals with a time out granted by the official in 3-5-10. So we hop over to 3-5-10. That's the various official's time outs, which right in section 3-5-10 a is the time out for injury.

So not only CAN they take an outside the 9 yd mark conference, it's actually the ONLY type of conference they can take, by rule. I have no idea where the 'no coaching' part came from - we're really going to police what they say? But a lot think it, for whatever reason.

As to the second question, wait till the ball is placed. Start that baby up as soon as possible.

We've been instructed to keep them at the numbers, but have never stopped anyone from coaching.