injury and substitution question

Man in Grey · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 28, 2004, 10:18pm

Hi guys & gals, I am an european (Dutch) referee and we use the FIBA rules. On our forum we have a big discussion about whether or not you are allowed back on the court after you've been injured. Let me give you a couple of examples:

1 injury to player A8, player is substituted(event in 1st quarter, after 20 minutes he is able to play again. There are 5 players on the court for team a and also 1 sub.

2 Same as one, but with this difference: Team A has lost 1 more player to injury and another is fouled out, So just 4 are playing for team A.

Is player A8 allowed to re-enter the game in any or both cases according to your rules?

thx a bundle

Adam · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 28, 2004, 10:52pm

I don't know much about FIBA, but with NFHS (US High School rules), once play has resumed and the clock has started, the player may sub back in the game.

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 28, 2004, 10:53pm

Unless a player is judged to be unconscious, he may always re-enter the game, when the next opportunity to legally sub occurs.

Back In The Saddle · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 29, 2004, 04:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Unless a player is judged to be unconscious, he may always re-enter the game, when the next opportunity to legally sub occurs.

The player may also remain in the game after the clock stops for an injury if the team "buys" him back in with a time out and he's ready to play when the time out ends. At least HS, don't know about NCAA.

Mark Padgett · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 29, 2004, 06:08pm

I thought that under FEEBLE rules, players could not return only if they had surrendered.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 29, 2004, 07:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I thought that under FEEBLE rules, players could not return only if they had surrendered.

Mark:

Now be nice.

In both situations under FIBA rules, there is no reason why A8 cannot return to the game.

MTD, Sr.

Nevadaref · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 02:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

1. The player may also remain in the game

2. if the team "buys" him back in with a time out

BITS,
Since we do concern ourselves with proper terminology on this forum, please stick to using the words in #1 and refrain from the coach-speak of #2.

The "buy back in" irks me because we know that if the player has actually left the game even a TO can't get him back in. At that point it is too late. The TO can only prevent him from having to leave and allow the player to remain in the game.

Man in Grey · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 07:38am

The main problem was with the situation where the team on the court excisted out of 4 or less players. Would the former injured player be allowed back as a 5th player, or could he only be subbed for 1 of the other 4. Vast majority is in favor of just letting him back on as 5th, but the rules are very vague about whether this is allowed or not.

Hence my question to you guys with different rules to see if you have a similar thing with this situation, or that its clear in your rules.

Again thx for all your input.

MIG

Jay R · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 08:27am

Quote:

Originally posted by Man in Grey
The main problem was with the situation where the team on the court excisted out of 4 or less players. Would the former injured player be allowed back as a 5th player, or could he only be subbed for 1 of the other 4. Vast majority is in favor of just letting him back on as 5th, but the rules are very vague about whether this is allowed or not.

Hence my question to you guys with different rules to see if you have a similar thing with this situation, or that its clear in your rules.

Again thx for all your input.

MIG

He would be allowed back as the 5th player. FIBA is specific about that. There is even a provision in FIBA rules that says that an injured player who would normally have to be substituted for (ex: trainer comes on the floor)may remain in the game provided he has recovered if the team has no subs on the bench.

[Edited by Jay R on Nov 30th, 2004 at 09:18 AM]

bob jenkins · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 08:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by Man in Grey
The main problem was with the situation where the team on the court excisted out of 4 or less players. Would the former injured player be allowed back as a 5th player, or could he only be subbed for 1 of the other 4. Vast majority is in favor of just letting him back on as 5th, but the rules are very vague about whether this is allowed or not.

Hence my question to you guys with different rules to see if you have a similar thing with this situation, or that its clear in your rules.

Again thx for all your input.

MIG

IT's clear in FED -- an interp a few years ago allows the team to return to 5 players.

Back In The Saddle · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 09:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

1. The player may also remain in the game

2. if the team "buys" him back in with a time out

BITS,
Since we do concern ourselves with proper terminology on this forum, please stick to using the words in #1 and refrain from the coach-speak of #2.

The "buy back in" irks me because we know that if the player has actually left the game even a TO can't get him back in. At that point it is too late. The TO can only prevent him from having to leave and allow the player to remain in the game.

Nev, my most humble appologies for not living up to your exacting standards. I can totally see how having to deal with so many of us "mere mortals" must wear on your superior rules knowledge. I can only hope that one day I too may possess your vast wisdom. But I think I'll pass on your people skills.

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 10:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
[/B]

Nev, my most humble appologies for not living up to your exacting standards. I can totally see how having to deal with so many of us "mere mortals" must wear on your superior rules knowledge. I can only hope that one day I too may possess your vast wisdom. But I think I'll pass on your people skills.

[/B][/QUOTE]You forgot this, BITSy:

Give Nevada his righteous due now.

ChuckElias · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 10:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
IT's clear in FED -- an interp a few years ago allows the team to return to 5 players.

Bob, just so I'm clear:

Team A has no available substitutes.
A1 is injured and the coach is beckoned or the trainer comes on the floor.
Team A has no time-outs remaining.

Yet, we allow A1 to remain in the game if he is able to continue? If so, what is the interp that you mention? Is it still online or something?

Man in Grey · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 10:55am

@ Jay R:

do you have a link and rule # for that? I have the FIBA 2004 rules and interps but its not in there as far aas I know.

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
IT's clear in FED -- an interp a few years ago allows the team to return to 5 players.

Bob, just so I'm clear:

Team A has no available substitutes.
A1 is injured and the coach is beckoned or the trainer comes on the floor.
Team A has no time-outs remaining.

Yet, we allow A1 to remain in the game if he is able to continue? If so, what is the interp that you mention? Is it still online or something?

It's either a 2001 or a 2002 interp, iirc (I happened to be going through a file yesterday and noticed it). In the play in the interp, A1 was injured to the extent that s/he had to leave the game. A played with 4 until A1 was recovered enough to return (at a normal time to "substitute").

No mention of what to do if the recovery is before the clock starts.