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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 12, 2017, 06:29am
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Probably a preventative measure. Someone has either proposed it or it has been done. Imagine a football that looks like a Budweiser label, or a Coke can, or a McDonald's bag. Fed may just be trying to get out in front, for once.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 12, 2017, 07:34am
CT1 CT1 is offline
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I'm truly bothered that the Rules Committee has taken the time to adopt a rule concerning the loss of a prosthetic limb, yet still refuses to define the IB/OB status of an airborne player.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 12, 2017, 03:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
Probably a preventative measure. Someone has either proposed it or it has been done. Imagine a football that looks like a Budweiser label, or a Coke can, or a McDonald's bag. Fed may just be trying to get out in front, for once.
Doesn't make sense, considering they allow the leagues & schools themselves to advertise there, just not to rent the space out to others. If a state ass'n wants to do so, why would Fed care?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 12, 2017, 06:47pm
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Doesn't make sense, considering they allow the leagues & schools themselves to advertise there, just not to rent the space out to others. If a state ass'n wants to do so, why would Fed care?
Not EVERYTHING that turns out to be good for the goose, is automatically good for the gander. I have yet to see, or hear of, league or school advertising that comes anything near, "a football that looks like a Budweiser label, or a Coke can, or a McDonald's bag" that could easily become problematic to the extent of negatively affecting the game.

Lets, "not just go there", although there are likely "some" that would sell their soul for advertising revenue..
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 12, 2017, 07:42pm
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Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
Not EVERYTHING that turns out to be good for the goose, is automatically good for the gander. I have yet to see, or hear of, league or school advertising that comes anything near, "a football that looks like a Budweiser label, or a Coke can, or a McDonald's bag" that could easily become problematic to the extent of negatively affecting the game.

Lets, "not just go there", although there are likely "some" that would sell their soul for advertising revenue..
But why does the Federation think it knows better about this than its members do? I could understand if Fed itself were licensing its logo & didn't want it slapped on certain things, but this measure is not about separating those. Rather, Fed is dictating to member organiz'ns what they can put logos on.

This is not like a governing body wanting to keep professional players out of their game. It's not like ad space is going to give anybody a competitive advantage in games. It's also not going to provoke bad sportsmanship, like face paint that disses the opposing team or whatever it was they were trying to pre-empt previously.

Why doesn't Fed ban all advertising in the arena & stipulate that no admission or cover charge be allowed, or even specify that there be no seats facing the games, or other things that encourage outsiders to look on?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 13, 2017, 08:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
But why does the Federation think it knows better about this than its members do?
Why doesn't Fed ban all advertising in the arena & stipulate that no admission or cover charge be allowed, or even specify that there be no seats facing the games, or other things that encourage outsiders to look on?
Assuming, "One size fits (or doesn't fit) all" rarely, if ever, proves smart. Advertising related to HS athletic activities has a place, BUT it's not EVERY place, and NFHS has considered, and decided, the "game ball" is NOT an appropriate place for optional advertising.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 13, 2017, 09:02am
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
But why does the Federation think it knows better about this than its members do?
Why doesn't Fed ban all advertising in the arena & stipulate that no admission or cover charge be allowed, or even specify that there be no seats facing the games, or other things that encourage outsiders to look on?
Assuming, "One size fits (or doesn't fit) all" rarely, if ever, proves a worthwhile idea. Advertising related to HS athletic activities has a place, BUT it's not EVERY place, and the NFHS has considered, and decided, the "game ball" is NOT a suitable place for additional commercial advertising, which seems a reasonable and rational restriction.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 13, 2017, 09:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
But why does the Federation think it knows better about this than its members do? I could understand if Fed itself were licensing its logo & didn't want it slapped on certain things, but this measure is not about separating those. Rather, Fed is dictating to member organiz'ns what they can put logos on.

This is not like a governing body wanting to keep professional players out of their game. It's not like ad space is going to give anybody a competitive advantage in games. It's also not going to provoke bad sportsmanship, like face paint that disses the opposing team or whatever it was they were trying to pre-empt previously.

Why doesn't Fed ban all advertising in the arena & stipulate that no admission or cover charge be allowed, or even specify that there be no seats facing the games, or other things that encourage outsiders to look on?
Because the ball is an implement of the game and it makes sense to have some reasonable standards on appearance to ensure at least some consistency, even if both teams use their own. Just like HS uses a white stripe football vs the non-stripe used in other levels. I don't think there was some spate of ad-filled balls out there - which would be a very poor spend of ad $ anyway, since no one in the stands could see it - but this seems like an eminently reasonable pre-emptive measure.

I don't see any logic whatsover in extending that past the point of absurdity in tying standards for the major game implement to an ad on the fence or stadium ticket policies. There has to be a line, and the ball and player uniforms seem well within that line.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 13, 2017, 06:36pm
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Originally Posted by scrounge View Post
Because the ball is an implement of the game and it makes sense to have some reasonable standards on appearance to ensure at least some consistency, even if both teams use their own. Just like HS uses a white stripe football vs the non-stripe used in other levels. I don't think there was some spate of ad-filled balls out there - which would be a very poor spend of ad $ anyway, since no one in the stands could see it - but this seems like an eminently reasonable pre-emptive measure.
But look at all the exceptions they make. It's not like they don't allow a ball to be all marked up, only that the markings can't be commercially sponsored. A ball's just as marked up if it says, "Property of Podunk Bd. of Ed." as it is if it says "Budweiser". So it's not about consistency of appearance.

But you're right that it would be a poor spend of ad $ if they wanted people to see it at a distance. This is more about the possibility of a sponsor's making a donation in kind to a school -- balls marked with their logo or name -- so the kids using the equipment will appreciate them.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 14, 2017, 10:26am
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
as it is if it says "Budweiser". So it's not about consistency of appearance.

This is more about the possibility of a sponsor's making a donation in kind to a school -- balls marked with their logo or name -- so the kids using the equipment will appreciate them.
Most High School students don't need visual stimulation to heighten their appreciation of Budweiser (or competitors).
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:12am
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Need to make it the same for all involved!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2017, 12:32pm
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Thumbs down Whoa Nellie there Robert Goodman - You are mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
But why does the Federation think it knows better about this than its members do?
The NFHS, commonly referred to as "The Fed" or "The Federation" is made up of 1 voting member from each member state. You can find the list of member state names on Page 4 of your 2016 NFHS Rules Book.
Rules changes are proposed by member states and voted on by member states. If a super majority of the members votes in favor, a rule is changed, if not, it remains unchanged.
Restated, NFHS Members propose changes and vote on changes as the federation is simply made up of members representatives from member states.

It is for this reason that your statement - "But why does the Federation think it knows better about this than its members do?" is foolhardy and a bit askew!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
If a state ass'n wants to do so, why would Fed care?
Again, there is no mystery or shroud of secrecy as only state associations members a rep from the Officials association and a rep from the coaches association make up the federation. In this situation, One (or more) of the member states "cared" and presented a Rule Proposal to not allow advertising on the ball. They defined advertising, it was voted on and adopted. Nothing more, nothing less.

Perhaps you may want to factor in and adjust to some facts before continuing to make your assumptions and/or "conspiracy theory" type objections to NFHS rule changes you continue to publish on this and other chat boards.

But then thats just My 2 cents
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Last edited by KWH; Wed Mar 29, 2017 at 12:48pm.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2017, 01:21pm
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Originally Posted by KWH View Post
Again, there is no mystery or shroud of secrecy as only state associations members a rep from the Officials association and a rep from the coaches association make up the federation. In this situation, One (or more) of the member states "cared" and presented a Rule Proposal to not allow advertising on the ball. They defined advertising, it was voted on and adopted. Nothing more, nothing less.
But if they really cared, wouldn't they be more directly effective by getting their own state to adopt such a policy? Or their own league? Or their own school? Why should they care what advertising some other school, maybe across the country, puts on the balls they use? It doesn't affect the game itself.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2017, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
But if they really cared, wouldn't they be more directly effective by getting their own state to adopt such a policy? Or their own league? Or their own school? Why should they care what advertising some other school, maybe across the country, puts on the balls they use? It doesn't affect the game itself.
Well...says you. Others with the responsibility of executing the policy have decided it does affect the game and disagreed with your premise. There will always be a tension between uniformity and delegation to each state. It's entirely reasonable to debate where that line should be...it's entirely unreasonable and a complete waste of time to argue there should be no line.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2017, 07:11pm
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Well even if the NF has put in a rule about advertising that I agree with in principle, but I do feel that the NF worries too much about many things that are really not their concern overall. For example in my state there is a contract with what type of football (or other types of balls/equipment used) and the games are not supposed to be played at least in the playoffs without that specific type of brand being used. Now, wouldn't that be at the real jurisdiction of the state or member what is on their football? I remember when the NF put how many panels should be on the basketball only to have a basketball produced by the licensed sponsor company of our state had produced a basketball with more panels that the rules allowed. I remember that discussion got so silly about what type of basketball could be used only based on the panels on the specific ball. It just seems like the NF gets way into things that they should allow the states to set some standards, just like they do in many other areas. Because if someone has an advertisement on the field or football, what are we going to ultimately do? Are we going to not play the game? I know depending on the issue, we were told to not play the game if the right licensed ball was used, even if we had no other footballs available. But that was the position of the state, not the NF. I have no problem if states set some standards, but the NF comes up with many issues that only create further problems when they are not needed IMO.

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