Down after penalty enforcement

[9thIsleZebra]

NFHS rules: it is A's ball 2nd down and 7 from B's 10 yard line. During a forward pass by A, B is flagged for pass interference. After penalty administration, what is the ensuing down and distance?

[paulsonj72]

Originally Posted by 9thIsleZebra

NFHS rules: it is A's ball 2nd down and 7 from B's 10 yard line. During a forward pass by A, B is flagged for pass interference. After penalty administration, what is the ensuing down and distance?

Half the distance to the goal for the penalty so spot the ball at the B5 yard line. Down remains 2nd down and it is 2nd and 2. The automatic 1st down was removed from defensive pass interference a couple of years ago(as was the loss of down for offensive pass interference)

[HLin NC]

Did A score on the play or was it incomplete?

[9thIsleZebra]

Originally Posted by paulsonj72

Half the distance to the goal for the penalty so spot the ball at the B5 yard line. Down remains 2nd down and it is 2nd and 2. The automatic 1st down was removed from defensive pass interference a couple of years ago(as was the loss of down for offensive pass interference)

That's exactly what I have but some officials have contended that it should be first and goal from B's 5. The reason being that if A was able to have the full penalty yardage assessed they would have been beyond the line to gain. So if anyone out there believes that this would be the case then I would like to hear back from you. Please cite a rule reference because I can't find it anywhere.

[Welpe]

There's nothing in the book that supports their assertion. You can't go with "what could be", only what is.

Quite simply, if the actual penalty does not bring the ball beyond the line to gain, it's not a first down.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There's nothing in the book that supports their assertion. You can't go with "what could be", only what is.

Quite simply, if the actual penalty does not bring the ball beyond the line to gain, it's not a first down.

^This^

The only time a new series can be awarded to A without A being in possession of the ball beyond the line to gain at the end of a down is following the enforcement of a penalty which includes an automatic first-down or following a down during which there is a change of possession (or more specifically at least 2 changes of possession with A having possession at the end of the down).

ps: if anyone points out situations in which "A" is awarded a new series following a change of possession following a kick (free or scrimmage), I didn't include those because we use the designations K and R for kicking situations. K or R is awarded a new series (depending on who is entitled to possession) at the end of a kicking situation and becomes A at that point.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by 9thIsleZebra

That's exactly what I have but some officials have contended that it should be first and goal from B's 5. The reason being that if A was able to have the full penalty yardage assessed they would have been beyond the line to gain. So if anyone out there believes that this would be the case then I would like to hear back from you. Please cite a rule reference because I can't find it anywhere.

You can't find it anywhere because it isn't anywhere, because that isn't the rule.

"some officials" are wrong. And, in your situation, assessing the "full penalty yardage" would put the ball 5 yards into the end zone, so would "some officials" call a touchdown in that case?




On another note, keep in mind that in FED, any foul that occurs during a touchdown-scoring play can be assessed on the try or subsequent kickoff. So if Team A scored a touchdown, they could get half-the-distance on the try, or 15 yards on the kickoff. If during an extra period, the penalty would have to be assessed on the try, as there is no subsequent kickoff.

[Texas Aggie]

NCAA: ball placed at the spot of the foul or, if the spot is inside the 2 yard line, at the 2. First and goal for A.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

You can't find it anywhere because it isn't anywhere, because that isn't the rule.

"some officials" are wrong. And, in your situation, assessing the "full penalty yardage" would put the ball 5 yards into the end zone, so would "some officials" call a touchdown in that case?




On another note, keep in mind that in FED, any foul that occurs during a touchdown-scoring play can be assessed on the try or subsequent kickoff. So if Team A scored a touchdown, they could get half-the-distance on the try, or 15 yards on the kickoff. If during an extra period, the penalty would have to be assessed on the try, as there is no subsequent kickoff.

I would hope that if there was a TD that our officials would be slow enough on the flag to not have DPI in the first place.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Rich

I would hope that if there was a TD that our officials would be slow enough on the flag to not have DPI in the first place.

What about in this case:


I think if DPI is there, you call it. If the receiver makes the catch, good on him. But that doesn't get B out of a DPI.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Rich

I would hope that if there was a TD that our officials would be slow enough on the flag to not have DPI in the first place.

On a slight-contact-before-the-ball-arrives type DPI, sure, but it's not terribly hard to imagine a scenario where you'd look bad for not throwing on a DPI foul even if the ball was caught for a touchdown.

A real example that happened to me in a JV game several years ago: A80 jumps to catch a pass over his head in the end zone, but B18 interferes with A80 such that he can only get one arm up above his head. A80 then tips the ball with the hand he was able to get over his head, and the pass is subsequently caught by A84.

Also, if you don't call an obvious DPI on a touchdown-scoring play and Team A is called for a foul during the play (holding, illegal formation, whatever), now you've gone from offsetting fouls to penalizing Team A because you didn't throw a flag "because they scored anyway"

[Rich]

I'm talking about slight early contact. Slow flag is just good officiating. If you think it still warrants a flag, then throw it.