Questions

[Skijunki07]

O.K....2 questions:
1) The ball is snapped over the punters head and into the end zone. He runs back and kicks the ball out the SIDE of the end zone. What should the resulting call be?
2) The ball is punted. The receiving team fumbles and the ball is recovered by the kicking team. But, right before the fumble, the kicking team gets called for a facemask penalty. Who gets the ball and where should it be placed?

Thanks all.

[jTheUmp]

1) Safety. Doesn't matter if the kick is legal or not (or, if an illegal kick, if the penalty is accepted or declined).

2) Assuming you mean that the kick was fielded cleanly by R (not muffed), then you simply have a facemask penalty during a running play by the team not in possession of the ball. Enforce accordingly. (ie, from the end of the related run/spot of the fumble).

[Skijunki07]

So, in #2, the kicking team would maintain possession since they recovered the fumble, then get penalized for the facemask from where the ball was recovered?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Skijunki07

So, in #2, the kicking team would maintain possession since they recovered the fumble, then get penalized for the facemask from where the ball was recovered?

No, because as he said, you enforce from the end of the run during which the foul occurred, and that run was by the receiving team's player.

[Skijunki07]

The receiving team's player fumbled the ball, which was recovered by the kicking team's player. But, there was a facemask against the receiving team right before the fumble. So, the receiving team's player did not complete a run. Does the facemask call nullify the fumble?

[Skijunki07]

Got it figured out. Thanks for your help, guys...appreciate it.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Skijunki07

The receiving team's player fumbled the ball, which was recovered by the kicking team's player. But, there was a facemask against the receiving team right before the fumble. So, the receiving team's player did not complete a run. Does the facemask call nullify the fumble?

There are several ways a run can end... the runner fumbling the ball is one of those ways.

[HLin NC]

K did not recover the ball with "clean hands". This would be one of the reasons why we bean bag a fumble.

[ajmc]

Something that reads so clearly, that causes a lot of confusion is "a kick remains a kick, until it's no longer a kick" (which means:" a kick remains a kick until someone/anyone POSSESSES it, or it's blown dead. NFHS 2-34-1.

No matter who, or how many different people touch/muff a kick, it remains a kick until it's actually POSSESSED. While a kick is still a kick it is a LOOSE BALL, and any fouls that occur are enforced as such.

The key to your question, aside from who actually grabbed a facemask, is whether that happened DURING the kick, or after it was RECOVERED (which requires POSSESSION, not just touching/muffing), and would then be enforced from the end of the related run (the fumble) rather than the previous spot.

The "Kicking Rules" are an area worthy of extensive review & discussion.

[Skijunki07]

AJMC...the facemask was after the receiving team's player caught the ball and before the fumble. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff

[CT1]

Originally Posted by Skijunki07

AJMC...the facemask was after the receiving team's player caught the ball and before the fumble. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff

The receiving team gets to keep the ball, and the FM penalty will be marked off from the end of the run -- the spot where he fumbled.

[Skijunki07]

Cool...Thanks.

[Texas Aggie]

The ball is snapped over the punters head and into the end zone. He runs back and kicks the ball out the SIDE of the end zone. What should the resulting call be?

NCAA: Result of the play is a safety. A flag should be for illegally kicking the ball (assuming the ball is loose when kicked; if the punter picked it up and kicked it out of the end zone, no foul). However, since both the result and the foul end up with the same result, the R will signal the foul as declined.

The ball is punted. The receiving team fumbles and the ball is recovered by the kicking team. But, right before the fumble, the kicking team gets called for a facemask penalty. Who gets the ball and where should it be placed?

NCAA: basic spot enforcement. Flag at the spot of the facemask and bean bag at the spot of the fumble. The basic spot on this play is the end of the run (foul by team not in possession) which is the bean bag, and the 15 yard penalty is enforced from this spot.