The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 03:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 561
Send a message via AIM to BoomerSooner
OSU-Central Michigan finish

Was listening on the radio, so I may not have all the specifics 100% accurate, but the pertinent info is good. With 8 seconds left on the game clock in the 4th quarter, facing 4th down with a 3 point lead, OSU decided to try run out the clock by having the QB take the snap and throw the pass high and way out of bounds to allow the clock to run out. The problem was that the QB was still in the pocket and there was no receiver even close to the area. The clock did expire during the pass, but intentional grounding was called and Central Michigan was given an untimed down due to the penalty.

I'm pretty sure the enforcement was correct but I can't find the rules support. Any help?
__________________
My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 03:54pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
It was incorrect. Loss of down foul means no untimed down. Conference has already acknowledged the error.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 04:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerSooner View Post
Was listening on the radio, so I may not have all the specifics 100% accurate, but the pertinent info is good. With 8 seconds left on the game clock in the 4th quarter, facing 4th down with a 3 point lead, OSU decided to try run out the clock by having the QB take the snap and throw the pass high and way out of bounds to allow the clock to run out. The problem was that the QB was still in the pocket and there was no receiver even close to the area. The clock did expire during the pass, but intentional grounding was called and Central Michigan was given an untimed down due to the penalty.

I'm pretty sure the enforcement was correct but I can't find the rules support. Any help?
There were only 4 seconds left when the last down was snapped.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 04:29pm
big jake
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Will heads roll
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 04:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 44
Soccer guy chiming in with a probably-dumb question:

The rule says there is an untimed down unless the foul is on the "team in possession." Since it was 4th down, the play ended with a change of possession. Does the phrase "team in possession" refer to the team possessing the ball at the end of the play (as in, the defense intercepts the pass and the returner gets tackled by the face mask on his way to the end zone) or does it only refer to who is in possession at the snap?

Or, am I misunderstanding something about when and how possession changes after 4th down?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 05:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Possession at the time of the foul.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 08:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,193
I know why the officials missed it: since the foul was on OkSU, it was 4th down, and the time ran out, there wasn't really a penalty for the foul. Which is odd and probably threw off their thinking. I can't prove that I wouldn't have missed that as well.

They clearly missed this, but I'm wondering: shouldn't the rule be revised? Had this been called correctly, OkSU would have gained a huge advantage -- foul on the last play for which there was no penalty. So go ahead and commit a foul as long as it includes a LOD provision. I would suggest a rules change that says the untimed down will take place if the accepted penalty results in a change of possession.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 09:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Menifee,CA
Posts: 860
I'm wondering how the MAC is officiating a Big 12 home game? Doesn't the home conference cover the contest?
__________________
Derryl Trujillo
Official Scorekeeper-Woodcrest Christian High School Basketball
Referee-Inland Volleyball Officials Association
The golfing volleyball ref and official scorekeeper
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 09:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 463
So, to my knowledge, no conference has ever done this, and I'm not sure that even here it would be a good idea, but...

The outcome of the game was demonstrably changed by a misapplication of a rule. There is no question about what would have happened if it had been called correctly. If ever there was a time for a conference to overturn a game result, this would be it.

Any chance this happens?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 09:41pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper View Post
I'm wondering how the MAC is officiating a Big 12 home game? Doesn't the home conference cover the contest?
There is no across the board policy. Often the visiting team brings in a crew, but some crews like the Pac-12 do not allow any other crews to come on their fields (at least that has been their policy for some time). Usually the teams not in the Power 5 are allowed to bring their crews in a visiting game. Now that being said, the MAC is apart of the consortium that involves the BIG and the Missouri Valley.

I am sure this entire situation will be talked about at our meeting on Tuesday. I am just wondering are any of the officials on this game from my area?

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 10, 2016, 11:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,193
Quote:
how the MAC is officiating a Big 12 home game
Non conference games are covered by the contract between schools. Sometimes, the visiting team's conference covers them, sometimes the home team's and other times they get them from a third conference. A Big 12 crew worked Houston vs. OU and a Pac 12 crew worked UCLA vs. A&M last week -- both road teams' conferences were at the game. Houston and College Station are an hour and a half apart and the crews should have just switched games.

I think the NCAA should require the third conference option.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 11, 2016, 03:08am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Side guy got in the way of the deep guy. Mechanics flub as well as a rules flub.

Having said that, the offense deliberately commited a foul and benefitted from it in the most perfect way - winning the game. Logic dictates that the non-offending team should be given something, and if that something is one untimed down where they win on a Hail Mary/lateral, then so be it.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 11, 2016, 03:10am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Video : https://streamable.com/z8gs

Twitter : https://www.twitter.com/MikePereira/...96457353895936
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 11, 2016, 08:17am
CT1 CT1 is offline
Official & ***** Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,049
Was this even IG? Wasn't done to conserve time or avoid loss of yardage.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 11, 2016, 09:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie View Post
I know why the officials missed it: since the foul was on OkSU, it was 4th down, and the time ran out, there wasn't really a penalty for the foul. Which is odd and probably threw off their thinking. I can't prove that I wouldn't have missed that as well.

They clearly missed this, but I'm wondering: shouldn't the rule be revised? Had this been called correctly, OkSU would have gained a huge advantage -- foul on the last play for which there was no penalty. So go ahead and commit a foul as long as it includes a LOD provision. I would suggest a rules change that says the untimed down will take place if the accepted penalty results in a change of possession.
Doesn't that seem disproportionate to you?

What does making a pass incomplete do? It can prevent loss of yardage, or it can stop loss of time. What is an untimed down for the other team supposed to be in compensation for?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maryland/Michigan State crazy finish (Video) bballref3966 Basketball 25 Sun Jan 18, 2015 04:17pm
Eastern Michigan-Michigan Backcourt Violation? (Video) TriggerMN Basketball 13 Wed Dec 10, 2014 05:15pm
Ordering from Central California ASA drog008 Softball 1 Mon Apr 05, 2010 04:57pm
Looking for summer bball central fla? TheMagicalHeat Basketball 0 Sun Feb 01, 2009 05:47pm
Any Central Oregon Umps out there?? spots101 Baseball 0 Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:57pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:12am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1