Illegal Kick

[sorrydog]

Punter on his 10 Yardline. Fumbles the snap and recovers the ball. Attempts to kick the ball back towards his end-zone to keep from getting sacked. A: Ball goes in end-zone and recovered by R. B: Ball goes through end-zone and out of the back. What U got?

[jTheUmp]

I'm assuming "attempts to kick" means "kicked" (because 'attempting to kick' a ball is meaningless... he either kicked it or he didn't).

A) Touchdown for Team B.

B) Result of the play is a safety. Team B can either decline the penalty and accept the safety or accept the penalty and have 1st & Goal from wherever the half-the-distance penalty leaves the ball. If the illegal kick occurred in the end zone, the result is a safety either way.

[SC Official]

How would B get 1st & goal by accepting the penalty? Illegal kicking is not a loss of down foul.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by sorrydog

Punter on his 10 Yardline. Fumbles the snap and recovers the ball. Attempts to kick the ball back towards his end-zone to keep from getting sacked.

Just referencing the thread name, what makes this an illegal kick? He recovered the ball, so what type of kick did he then make? I imagine a punt. He's allowed to punt the ball any direction he wants.

[sorrydog]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Just referencing the thread name, what makes this an illegal kick? He recovered the ball, so what type of kick did he then make? I imagine a punt. He's allowed to punt the ball any direction he wants.

Yes he recovered the ball and kicked it "TOWARDS" his end-zone in attempts to kick it out of the end-zone. So is it really a illegal kick? Good point! In my 30+ years officiating, never seen it done this way. Normally it's on the ground when they attempt this kind of play. I was kind of stumped by the play. With R recovering the ball in the end-zone, no big deal with the TD. But our crew had a discussion on it since I threw the late flag for illegal kick at the request by my umpire. Now that U made the point about him actually "punting" the ball, I still have questions now is it legal to "PUNT" it towards his goal. I know he can't kick it off the ground. Never too old to see something U never seen before!

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by SC Official

How would B get 1st & goal by accepting the penalty? Illegal kicking is not a loss of down foul.

Quite right... that's what I get for reading studying NCAA rules for an hour and then trying to answer a FED rules question.

Allow me to rephrase situation B in my previous post:
B) Result of the play is a safety. Team B can either decline the penalty and accept the safety or accept the penalty and replay the down from wherever the half-the-distance penalty leaves the ball. If the illegal kick occurred in the end zone, the result is a safety either way.


Of course, now the OP has been edited to say "Fumbles the snap and recovers the ball" rather than "Fumbles the snap and attempts to kick the ball"... so with that in mind:

Once the punter has recovered the ball, they may punk or drop kick it in any direction they wish. You just don't normally see a player punt the ball towards their own end line because there's absolutely no reason or benefit to doing so. Officiate the result the same way you would any other scrimmage kick play.

[Texas Aggie]

Attempts to kick the ball back towards his end-zone to keep from getting sacked. A: Ball goes in end-zone and recovered by R. B: Ball goes through end-zone and out of the back. What U got?

NCAA: It may or may not* be a foul for illegally kicking ball. Assuming it is a foul, in a), Team B will decline the foul and take the TD. In b), they might want to take the safety (result of play) or they might want to take the foul -- depending on the down. It would be a 10 yard penalty and a loss of down for Team A if the foul is accepted. Thus, if it was fourth down, Team B would get the ball around the 5 (half the distance).

However, as described, it MAY NOT be a foul. There's no prohibition that I'm aware of for a punter to turn back to his goal line and punt. The foul for illegally kicking a ball would assume that the kick is made with a loose ball, which is prohibited. Keep in mind that the NCAA still keeps the archaic difference between an illegal kick (return kick, kick by Team A beyond LOS) and illegally kicking ball (all other forms of kicks that aren't legal). The rule needs to be rewritten and updated, though it doesn't necessarily need to change what's happening now. It is silly and illogical to suggest there is an actual difference between something called an "illegal kick" and something else called "illegally kicking ball."

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

NCAA still keeps the archaic difference between an illegal kick (return kick, kick by Team A beyond LOS) and illegally kicking ball (all other forms of kicks that aren't legal). The rule needs to be rewritten and updated, though it doesn't necessarily need to change what's happening now. It is silly and illogical to suggest there is an actual difference between something called an "illegal kick" and something else called "illegally kicking ball."

I don't see why it needs to be rewritten, as it allowed more compact form than Fed's provisions on the subject these days are done in. It was convenient to put a wrapper around the punt, drop kick, & place kick, and call those "kicks". Kicking the ball in NCAA may or may not result in a kick. The penalty consequences may be the same, but sometimes the result of declining a penalty will be different depending on whether it was an illegal kick or illegally kicking the ball.