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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 15, 2016, 06:23pm
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Makes sense Rich

http://www.ipfo.us/Targeting%20and%2...r%20Review.pdf
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 15, 2016, 08:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
A lot of good advice and practical applications . Don't know about "The
receiver must have the opportunity to perform a second act (i.e. dive to pylon, possess & turn up field in order to rule catch.

Sounds like a "bridge too far" and is a lot closer to NFL than NFHS.
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You want consistency don't you? And every thing from the NFL is not foreign to the high school level.

Peace

I do not officiate football (but I did officiate H.S. futbol from 1993 to 2005, ). But my best officiating friend in Ohio is a long time OhioHSAA football official and football rules interpreter. And this is straight from him: The Director of Officials Development for Football is a retired NFL official and the OhioHSAA does not use NFHS Football Mechanics and instead has written its own officials manual.

MTD, Sr.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 10:34am
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
instead has written its own officials manual.

MTD, Sr.
Should read "instead has written HIS own officials manual"
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I do not officiate football (but I did officiate H.S. futbol from 1993 to 2005, ). But my best officiating friend in Ohio is a long time OhioHSAA football official and football rules interpreter. And this is straight from him: The Director of Officials Development for Football is a retired NFL official and the OhioHSAA does not use NFHS Football Mechanics and instead has written its own officials manual.

MTD, Sr.
A lot of states to my understanding do not use the NF Mechanics books as it is outdated and has not evolved. It is actually one of the worst mechanics books I can remember out of all the other books. Illinois for example does not use the NF book for a similar reason.

Peace
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 12:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
A lot of states to my understanding do not use the NF Mechanics books as it is outdated and has not evolved. It is actually one of the worst mechanics books I can remember out of all the other books. Illinois for example does not use the NF book for a similar reason.

Peace
For football, I'm not sure what's all that outdated in the NFHS manual.

The one thing Ohio does that I'm simply not fond of is put the R on the wide side of the field. So the R flip-flops sides during a series depending on where the ball is spotted?

Not. A. Fan.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:41pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It is no different than the usage of "common to the game" that is used for years. Peace
EXACTLY the point, I was attempting to make. "Common to the game" as well as "Perform a second act" mean different things to different people, and have done so for years, which is an ever present problem with trying to create a "simple" statement that covers an infinite number of variations, equally.

What seems far more important is reaching a thorough understanding of what "possession" and "maintaining it" actually means, and then applying that understanding EXCLUSIVELY to what you actually see unfolding before your eyes, in the unique circumstance you're looking at.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:48pm
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Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
EXACTLY the point, I was attempting to make. "Common to the game" as well as "Perform a second act" mean different things to different people, and have done so for years, which is an ever present problem with trying to create a "simple" statement that covers an infinite number of variations, equally.

What seems far more important is reaching a thorough understanding of what "possession" and "maintaining it" actually means, and then applying that understanding EXCLUSIVELY to what you actually see unfolding before your eyes, in the unique circumstance you're looking at.
It does not have to mean different things if it is taught the same way. The problem as I see it is we have rules book nazis that go around getting upset when everything is not perfectly listed in the rules book. Well not every application or philosophy is listed that perfectly. These philosophies are so that you are consistent. And honestly I do not worry about what others around me do, I care mostly about what I do because I am the one that can control what I call. As a crew we talk about these things so we share the same philosophy as well, but everyone has to live and die with their calls. Not everything is a group thought.

Peace
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
For football, I'm not sure what's all that outdated in the NFHS manual.

The one thing Ohio does that I'm simply not fond of is put the R on the wide side of the field. So the R flip-flops sides during a series depending on where the ball is spotted?

Not. A. Fan.
A lot of things. Like how to cover the goal line. Where to set up on something as simple as an scrimmage kick (at least this was the case for years). My state got tired of doing everything that was never updated and changed specific mechanics that if we used the manual, would have been big holes in plays covered.

I am not saying I would agree with everything Ohio does, but I certainly do not agree with the NF book on many things. Now unless they have changed, they were not much help in the sport of football. And certainly, that was just the crew of 5. Heck if you had fewer officials on the field, the NF was almost no help.

Peace
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 03:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
For football, I'm not sure what's all that outdated in the NFHS manual.
Not much, if anything, that I'm aware of. We use it and it works fine. The only thing I don't really care for in the manual is kickoff coverage. And I like setting up deeper as umpire than the manual's recommended 5-7 yards.

I also hate the triangle in three man but 3-man isn't even in the book anymore and we almost never work it so that's a moot point.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 04:53pm
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Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Not much, if anything, that I'm aware of. We use it and it works fine. The only thing I don't really care for in the manual is kickoff coverage. And I like setting up deeper as umpire than the manual's recommended 5-7 yards.

I also hate the triangle in three man but 3-man isn't even in the book anymore and we almost never work it so that's a moot point.
And our mechanics allows for officials in 3-person to have two wings and a Umpire/Referee positions in either part of the backfield of the offensive or defensive team.

Peace
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 05:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Not much, if anything, that I'm aware of. We use it and it works fine. The only thing I don't really care for in the manual is kickoff coverage. And I like setting up deeper as umpire than the manual's recommended 5-7 yards.

I also hate the triangle in three man but 3-man isn't even in the book anymore and we almost never work it so that's a moot point.
Kickoff coverage -- I hear you.

I won't work 3 ever, so the question is moot.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 10:15pm
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I worked 3 man on Saturday morning double headers about 20 years ago for 4th/5th graders. On rare occasions we went out with a Line Ref and an Ump Judge.

I do not miss those days.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 08:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf View Post
Should read "instead has written HIS own officials manual"
The pronoun is referring to the OHSAA, not to the Director of Officiating. So "its" is correct.

It also appears to be a quote, so it's correct to use any improper grammar within the quote, although it should be followed by [sic], of course.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 08:31am
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I think this was a very good addition to what I think is a fantastic mechanics manual, which has improved over the years every single year. Sure, there are points here and there I disagree with, but it has been an enormous benefit in standardizing and improving mechanics across the board, especially in a state that had such different operating cultures before this (three large and different metro areas, another style in NW Ohio, a REALLY different style in the rural SE area, etc).

I'm filling in for a crew as LJ in week one in what was an open date for our regular crew. I'm normally a BJ but have done significant time at wing, so no big deal. With this, I just have to study the LJ mechanics and I don't have to worry about how this particular crew - whom I've never worked with - does pre-snap checks or how they signal or where to be, etc. I *know* because they use the same standard operating procedures. We can use our pre-game on other things instead of spending an hour on the basics. What some call 'micro-managing' I call having a standard, uniform procedure to create a platform for common understanding and continuous improvement. Just like when I was in the Army and we had detailed procedures just like this - I didn't have to wonder which pocket ammo vs med equipment was in on someone else, I knew because we specified it. I didn't have to tell the 1st tank driver he had the job of outpost watch when we came to a long stop, he knew and he knew what to do and what to take, etc.

Bigjohn, I don't know if you're in Ohio and conducting a passive-aggressive whining campaign or outside and just have a gold book fetish, but I find this 'drive-by' posting of what I think is an excellent article of tools and philosophies with a pejorative title and no specific criticisms to be kind of pathetic.

And by the way, if you noticed the footnote, most of the content in that article was borrowed - with permission - from Hawaii.

Last edited by scrounge; Wed Aug 17, 2016 at 08:35am.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 09:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
The one thing Ohio does that I'm simply not fond of is put the R on the wide side of the field. So the R flip-flops sides during a series depending on where the ball is spotted?
For 5-man, our state allows the R to be either on passing-arm side or wide side (his choice).

For 7-man, the R is always on passing-arm side.

I personally prefer wide side in 5-man, since that balances the field. And half the time it will be passing-arm side as well.
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