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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 10:36am
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many different situations, same play:
On a scrimmage kick: k 4/7 B45. K-10 kicks ball and becomes motionless on R-3. R-43 Intentionally kicks ball through end zone. Foul, spot of enforcement, clock..... Same situation: but R-43 unintentionally through the end zone. Same situation: R-43 intentionally / unintentionally kicks ball INTO end zone and K recovers . Same situations but on a kick off. HAVE FUN WITH THIS ONE~!!!!!!!!!!!! Question to determine: does the force supplied by R negate the fact the kick has NOT ended when it is kicked? 
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 10:56am
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How long was the ball stopped? If the ball is stopped and no one attempts to recover it, the play is dead, isn't it?
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 11:35am
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I think I hjave found the answer as I digested force a bit more. after a kick has been grounded, as in our example, new force may be applied from a bat, muff or ILL KICK. But, for the end result, does the force end the kick? I believe it does, according to this. So now my results:
1) Saftey then according to 8-5-2b (when penality is declined). What if penality is accepted? (why i do not know but ...). This is PSK correct? enforcement from the spot of the kick, since it is behind the basic spot (the 20 when a ball enters the end zone as a TB. 2)just saftey. This then becomes a muff. correct?? 3) TD, again if penality is declined?? maybe...... 4)on a kcik off, does anything change except NO PSK can exist? This is a loose ball foul, 10 yds + re kick??? May questions about this play still exist.
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 11:47am
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No Safeties
Key point: Regardless of any fouls, the kick does not end until the ball is possessed or the ball becomes dead... And since force is not a factor on kicks going into the end zone, safeties do not result in the plays you describe...
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 11:48am
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Quote:
So in situation #1 “R-43 intentionally kicks ball through end zone“. this is a PSK foul. The BS is the R-20. The spot of the foul is the R-3. If accepted we enforce 1/2 the distance to the goal line making it R 1/10 @ R-1.5 clock on the snap. Situation #2 “R-43 unintentionally through the end zone”. R 1/10 @ R-20 clock on the snap Situation #3 “R-43 intentionally / unintentionally kicks ball INTO end zone and K recovers” If intentional, same enforcement as in situation #1. If unintentional, it results as in situation 2. K recovering the ball has no baring here because the ball became dead when it entered R’s end zone. Situation #4 “Same situations but on a kick off.” . Doesn’t matter. All rulings are the same as this was a kick that entered R’s end zone.
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 11:57am
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In all cases the result of the play is a touchback. See 2-13-4a:
"Force is not a factor on kicks into R's endszone since these kicks are always touchbacks regardless who supplied the force." So.... a. Ball dead at R-3(ball is motionless--kick ends) Delay of game foul for kicking the dead ball. 1 and 10 on 1 1/2. b. Same. no foul for uninientional kick. C. Same. foul if kick intentional D same.
__________________
Steve
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 12:10pm
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Thanks to all to helped. I read too muchinto the rule about kicks grounded and force applied to them. I thought (and felt) that a kick (legal/ill woud lnullify th epossesion clause in kicks. I just did not read far enough.
THANKS!
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 03:20pm
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REPLY: (FEDERATION) I'm a little confused by those saying that the ball is dead just because it stops. It seems from the post that R43 is standing close, at least close enough that he's able to kick it, intentionally or not! If everyone's just standing there looking at it, I agree--blow it dead. But if either team is making any kind of movement toward the ball, hold the whistle. The way I'm visualizing this play, I would not blow it dead. That said:
SCRIMMAGE KICK: Situation 1: Illegal kick, 15 yards from previous spot, replay, clock on snap since a new series will be awarded to A after a legal kick. Situation 2: TB Situation 3: Intentional kick -- see situation 1; unintentional kick -- see situation 2. FREE KICK: Situation 1: Illegal kick, 15 yards, replay the free kick down, clock when ball is legally touched Situation 2: TB Situation 3: Same as for scrimmage kick NOTE: The result of the play in all situations (scrimmage and free kicks) is a TB. Force is not a factor on kicks going into R's end zone. All kicks crossing the plane of R's endzone are dead -- TB. (OK...I know unless a scoring attempt, blah, blah). And in situation #3, K has recovered a dead ball. By the way...totally different for NCAA rules.
__________________
Bob M.
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 06:08pm
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Quote:
Quote:
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Thu Sep 11, 2003, 08:28pm
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situation 1 Touchback, even though the ball was motionless it is still a kick. penalty illegal kick psk applies penalty if accepted 1 1/2 yard line clock starts at the snap.
situation 2 Touchback, no penalty clock starts on the snap situation 3 Touchback, if intentional illegal kick psk applies, ball on the 1 1/2, if not intentional no penalty ball on the 20 for R clock starts on the snap situation 4 Touchback, penalty illegal kick, previous spot penalty 15 yds (loose ball foul) if accepted. clock at the snap or when legally touched if re-kicked.
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