Wrong-direction jurisdiction

[ODog]

Four minutes left, tie game, high school-aged players, 2-man crew.

A1 secures an offensive rebound near the free-throw line, turns and unwittingly drives downcourt toward Team B's basket. He makes it all the way to the hoop without a whistle and converts a layup.

At this point, play is blown dead in order to ensure Team A inbounds the ball and Team B is credited with two points.

Team A players and coach rightfully question why there was no whistle for a backcourt violation. The only explanation was that the T, then transitioning to L once A1 decided to head the wrong way, was caught off guard and didn't put it together until it was too late.

Two questions:
1.) Could you stretch this under the "counting/canceling a score" provision of the CE umbrella and wipe out the hoop (and the egg off the T's face) by saying it should have been backcourt and awarding Team B the ball at the spot of the violation?
2.) Is this a situation where you, as the L, would whistle the violation from 35-40 feet away once it became clear your partner wasn't putting it together; or is that something you just let him live/die with because it happened right in front of him and WAY out of your coverage area?

[just another ref]

1. no

2. yes

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by just another ref

1. No

2. Yes

+1

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ODog

....
2.) Is this a situation where you, as the L, would whistle the violation from 35-40 feet away once it became clear your partner wasn't putting it together; or is that something you just let him live/die with because it happened right in front of him and WAY out of your coverage area?

This is not some judgment play. It is a clear violation where one partner goes brain dead. This is not the type of play that falls under "let your partner live or die with it". There is no credible reason not to call the violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ODog

...
1.) Could you stretch this under the "counting/canceling a score" provision of the CE umbrella and wipe out the hoop (and the egg off the T's face) by saying it should have been backcourt and awarding Team B the ball at the spot of the violation?...

Would you cancel a basket if an obvious travel or illegal dribble was missed? Would you retroactively call a travel?

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This is not some judgment play. It is a clear violation where one partner goes brain dead. This is not the type of play that falls under "let your partner live or die with it". There is no credible reason not to call the violation.

Agree. If I see this and am certain that a violation occurs, I am going to get it if my partner goes brain dead.

However, I'm not sure that I would be certain in most cases. It's been a long time since I've worked 2man, but if I'm the lead I really don't think I'm going to be looking at the action near mid-court.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

Agree. If I see this and am certain that a violation occurs, I am going to get it if my partner goes brain dead.

However, I'm not sure that I would be certain in most cases. It's been a long time since I've worked 2man, but if I'm the lead I really don't think I'm going to be looking at the action near mid-court.

If a player grabs an offensive rebound in his paint and then heads in the opposite direction to the opponent's basket, what else is there to look at? The other 9 players are standing around with WTF looks on their faces. 2-man or 3-man, you should always know where the ball is on the court.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The other 9 players are standing around with WTF looks on their faces.

In other words, they are minions from McDonald's happy meals!

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If a player grabs an offensive rebound in his paint and then heads in the opposite direction to the opponent's basket, what else is there to look at? The other 9 players are standing around with WTF looks on their faces. 2-man or 3-man, you should always know where the ball is on the court.

For some reason I thought the OP said he secured possession of the rebound near mid-court. After re-reading, I agree that I would likely have picked this up if he secured possession in the lane and then took off the other way across the length of the court.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ODog

Two questions:
1.) Could you stretch this under the "counting/canceling a score" provision of the CE umbrella and wipe out the hoop (and the egg off the T's face) by saying it should have been backcourt and awarding Team B the ball at the spot of the violation?
2.) Is this a situation where you, as the L, would whistle the violation from 35-40 feet away once it became clear your partner wasn't putting it together; or is that something you just let him live/die with because it happened right in front of him and WAY out of your coverage area?

1. If you administer a throw-in to the wrong team and it inbounds the ball and scores, can you cancel the points and give the ball to the proper team?

2. Honestly, it would depend upon who my partner is. It seems to me that some guys need to have egg on their face and I'm not willing to bail them out. Others are wonderful people who can just be in over their heads on certain games or aren't good with the oddball plays and need some help once in a while. I don't mind throwing them a life preserver. I know that answer won't be universally popular and probably will get criticized as unprofessional, but we all know guys who have huge egos that we wouldn't mind seeing be at the center of a colossal screw-up. The risk is that you could go down with them, if you are on the game even though it wasn't your call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. If you administer a throw-in to the wrong team and it inbounds the ball and scores, can you cancel the points and give the ball to the proper team?

2. Honestly, it would depend upon who my partner is. It seems to me that some guys need to have egg on their face and I'm not willing to bail them out. Others are wonderful people who can just be in over their heads on certain games or aren't good with the oddball plays and need some help once in a while. I don't mind throwing them a life preserver. I know that answer won't be universally popular and probably will get criticized as unprofessional, but we all know guys who have huge egos that we wouldn't mind seeing be at the center of a colossal screw-up. The risk is that you could go down with them, if you are on the game even though it wasn't your call.

I think, in most cases, making the call would be sufficiently embarrassing to the guys with big egos. I'm not sure I'd want my game to land in the crapper to prove a point, though.

I'd probably make the call, although I can imagine the odd scenario where I'd leave a partner out to dry on this one.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Adam

I think, in most cases, making the call would be sufficiently embarrassing to the guys with big egos. I'm not sure I'd want my game to land in the crapper to prove a point, though.

I'd probably make the call, although I can imagine the odd scenario where I'd leave a partner out to dry on this one.

Yeah, there's a good chance things could get weird in the locker room, but in the long run it's the best thing for the game and you. I would think an assignor would praise you for bailing out your partner and the game. Hell, we all have brain farts (some worse than others).

[OKREF]

I would have no problem making the call, or having my partner make the call. In the end its about getting it right. If I make that call and my partner wants to gripe about it, first I'm asking why he didn't get it, then I'm packing my suitcase up and scratching him off my list.

However, there is no way to retroactively go back and call the violation if it is missed by both.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Yeah, there's a good chance things could get weird in the locker room, but in the long run it's the best thing for the game and you. I would think an assignor would praise you for bailing out your partner and the game. Hell, we all have brain farts (some worse than others).

The only way I can imagine not making this call is if my partner had already tried to chew my ass for making a call in his primary. I think that's what Nevada is talking about, too.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. If you administer a throw-in to the wrong team and it inbounds the ball and scores, can you cancel the points and give the ball to the proper team?

This seems to me an apples an oranges comparison -- you've changed it to restarting play the wrong way instead of a late call. I'm not a hoops ref (I do soccer -- in which the ref unamiguously could and should make the late correction in the OP, so long as play is not restarted, but could not correct your scenario as play was restarted). But I'm curious -- what *is* the criteria for when it is "too late" to make a call under BB rules?