Out of bounds and first to touch ball inbounds

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RefLarry

I referenced 7.1.1

You referenced this to what end? Did you call the violation?

[RefLarry]

Thank you for all of your replies. I did not call a violation but unfortunately my partner did.

I approached him immediately after he called it and asked him subtly why he blew the whistle. He explained confidently the scenario was illegal. I walked away and play resumed.I did not want to make a big deal of it, especially during the game. We discussed the play later. I showed him case play 7.1.1 but he was not at all convinced.He wrote "correct me" in an email and the challenge was on! We finally agreed on the scenario and I posted it. This post was to hopefully convince him the play was legal.

I was confident I was right because I posted a similar question here in 2010.

My partner has been very helpful to me over the years and I appreciate his help. I try to learn from my mistakes on the court.

[Nevadaref]

All of these case plays should make it clear that this action is legal.

7.1.1 SITUATION B: A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the
floor inbounds, but A1, who is off balance, steps off the court. A1 returns
inbounds, secures control of the ball and dribbles. RULING: Legal. A1 did not
leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did.
This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and
momentum carries A1 off the court. If the try is unsuccessful, A1 may come back
onto the court and regain control since A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and
did not have control of the ball when he/she did.
7.1.1 SITUATION C: A1 blocks a pass near the sideline and the ball goes into
A1’s front court. A1’s momentum carries him/her out of bounds. He/she immediately
returns inbounds, secures control of the ball, dribbles, shoots, and scores.
RULING: Legal. (4-35-1a; 7-1-2; 9-3)
7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

[potato]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

All of these case plays should make it clear that this action is legal.

7.1.1 SITUATION B: A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the
floor inbounds, but A1, who is off balance, steps off the court. A1 returns
inbounds, secures control of the ball and dribbles. RULING: Legal. A1 did not
leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did.
This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and
momentum carries A1 off the court. If the try is unsuccessful, A1 may come back
onto the court and regain control since A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and
did not have control of the ball when he/she did.
7.1.1 SITUATION C: A1 blocks a pass near the sideline and the ball goes into
A1’s front court. A1’s momentum carries him/her out of bounds. He/she immediately
returns inbounds, secures control of the ball, dribbles, shoots, and scores.
RULING: Legal. (4-35-1a; 7-1-2; 9-3)
7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

what about situation where:
A1 dribbles near the side of the court, loses the ball going out of bounds, jumps from inbound to save the ball (a: hand doesn't go below the center of the ball to be treated as carry; b:carry/hold/grabs the ball) & tosses it back inbound , gets inbound & touches the ball?

under (a) it would be legal and A1 allowed to continue the dribble, or hold the ball.

under (b) it would be illegal as it would contribute to self pass/double dribble since A1 ended his dribble when he carry/hold/grabbed the ball while trying to save the ball.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by potato

under (b) it would be illegal as it would contribute to self pass/double dribble ...

Lose "self pass" from your lexicon as quickly as possible.

[potato]

Originally Posted by ODog

Lose "self pass" from your lexicon as quickly as possible.

NBA stated:

"A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player"

so if the referee determines that the player was trying to pass, it can be treated as a violation on the above clause. whether or not the player actually started a dribble prior to ending the dribble while saving the ball is irrelevant as long as the throw is seen as a pass, and this situation is not uncommon when the supposingly receiver misses the pass & A1 goes to retrieve the ball and be the 1st person to touch it.

[APG]

Originally Posted by potato

NBA stated:

"A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player"

so if the referee determines that the player was trying to pass, it can be treated as a violation on the above clause. whether or not the player actually started a dribble prior to ending the dribble while saving the ball is irrelevant as long as the throw is seen as a pass, and this situation is not uncommon when the supposingly receiver misses the pass & A1 goes to retrieve the ball and be the 1st person to touch it.

You're applying the NBA rule set...when the majority of discussions on this forum are plays involving NFHS or NCAA rules. If you wish to discuss situations under NBA rules, you need to state so explicitly in your post.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

NBA stated:

"A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player"

....

Do you officiate under NBA rules? Do you officiate at all?

Do you think the members of this forum are NBA officials?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RefLarry

Thank you for all of your replies. I did not call a violation but unfortunately my partner did.

I approached him immediately after he called it and asked him subtly why he blew the whistle. He explained confidently the scenario was illegal. I walked away and play resumed.I did not want to make a big deal of it, especially during the game. We discussed the play later. I showed him case play 7.1.1 but he was not at all convinced.He wrote "correct me" in an email and the challenge was on! We finally agreed on the scenario and I posted it. This post was to hopefully convince him the play was legal.

I was confident I was right because I posted a similar question here in 2010.

My partner has been very helpful to me over the years and I appreciate his help. I try to learn from my mistakes on the court.

All too many people make the mistake your partner made.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by RefLarry

He wrote "correct me" in an email and the challenge was on!.

Maybe he would know the rules better if he looked in the book himself rather than making you do all the work.

It's amazing how much you can learn if you actually open the book!