Game Scenario for Discussion

[crosscountry55]

Setup: State sanctioned spring/summer league where JV players looking to advance to varsity play for their own schools against other schools in the area. Officials work in a 3-person crew. Modified rules include 20-min running clock halves, but the clock stops in the last two minutes of the second half (excepting for a 25-point mercy rule).

Situation: 3-person crew. Team A was dominant most of the game and up by about 18 points early in the second half. But Team B goes on a run and comes to within 6 when the ball becomes dead/clock stops with 59.8 remaining. Team A has an endline spot throw-in under Team B's basket, and Team B is pressing. You're the new lead ready to receive the play as it comes down court and you're right by Team A's bench. Coach A calls timeout before A1 releases a throw-in pass, but by the time you put air in the whistle, the throw-in pass has been released and is in flight. You grant the timeout. Then you look up at the clock and see 58.4.

Taking all of this context into account, what do you do?

[just another ref]

You put the 59.8 back on the clock? Why is this even a question?

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You put the 59.8 back on the clock? Why is this even a question?

just another ref....I don't want to stymie the discussion but I sent you a PM.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You put the 59.8 back on the clock? Why is this even a question?

I'm not sure if I'm missing something because I also wonder why this is a question? In addition to what jar said, I'm telling timer to not start the clock until I signal (which will be when the ball is legally touched in bounds) after the timeout.

But a pretty straightforward ruling. The other background info has no bearing on the ruling.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I'm not sure if I'm missing something because I also wonder why this is a question? In addition to what jar said, I'm telling timer to not start the clock until I signal (which will be when the ball is legally touched in bounds) after the timeout.

But a pretty straightforward ruling. The other background info has no bearing on the ruling.

I will preface my comment by saying that I do not do much 3 man.

In this case, as I read the description, the timer should not be looking at the lead for the signal to start the clock. Given the timing mentioned in the OP, I would not have an issue with the timer unless I knew 100% that a partner had not dropped the hand.

As for the clock. I am resetting it to the time prior to the throw, as no time legally came off the clock.

[kstiles99]

Air was put in the whistle when the ball was loose- no timeout can be granted, inadvertent whistle.

At least that's the only outrageous solution I can come up with at this ungodly hour.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by kstiles99

Air was put in the whistle when the ball was loose- no timeout can be granted, inadvertent whistle.

Why not? If you don't get air in the whistle when a foul is still occurring, is it too late to call the foul?

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by kstiles99

Air was put in the whistle when the ball was loose- no timeout can be granted, inadvertent whistle.

My post notwithstanding, I'm going to pretend I'm a casual observer on this and say that this is not correct. One of the rules fundamentals is that "the whistle rarely causes the ball to become dead; it is already dead." So since I know the TO was called while the thrower had the ball, that caused the ball to become dead. The whistle a second later was simply a marker of that event. That's how it works. This was most certainly not an inadvertent whistle.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by kstiles99

Air was put in the whistle when the ball was loose- no timeout can be granted, inadvertent whistle.

Incorrect. See case play 5.8.3 Situation E. If you grant a timeout, even erroneously, it cannot be revoked.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by kstiles99

Air was put in the whistle when the ball was loose- no timeout can be granted, inadvertent whistle.

At least that's the only outrageous solution I can come up with at this ungodly hour.

Even if you consider this an inadvertent whistle and an incorrectly granted timeout (which it is not), you would still grant the timeout and resume play by POI rules. Team control for the throw in team, so it will be A's ball. Ball location would be where the throw was released.

IOW, there's absolutely zero difference.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I will preface my comment by saying that I do not do much 3 man.

In this case, as I read the description, the timer should not be looking at the lead for the signal to start the clock. Given the timing mentioned in the OP, I would not have an issue with the timer unless I knew 100% that a partner had not dropped the hand.

As for the clock. I am resetting it to the time prior to the throw, as no time legally came off the clock.

None of this matters. Just grant the TO, put the time back on the clock, and move on. I'm assuming there must be more to the story, since this is rather basic.

[NNJOfficial]

Grant the timeout. Put the time back on the clock. Have a discussion with the official timer about not starting the clock until it has been signaled. If there is any confusion, call both coaches over and explain that the timeout was requested prior to the release of the ball and it was simply a timing issue when the whistle occurred.

[APG]

Originally Posted by NNJOfficial

If there is any confusion, call both coaches over and explain that the timeout was requested prior to the release of the ball and it was simply a timing issue when the whistle occurred.

No need for this...use your voice while selling the timeout...

BEFORE THE PASS, TIMEOUT WHITE!

It should be rare that you have to ever call both coaches over for anything.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by APG

It should be rare that you have to ever call both coaches over for anything.

It's good procedure if you're ejecting them both.

[NNJOfficial]

This occurred with under a minute left in a contested game. All well and good if it's clear, but if it's loud and difficult to hear and there was play after the ball was released you may need to offer some explanation. FWIW, I would have done exactly as you described, but I'm assuming the OP did not in light of the question.

As to your other point, when coaches are surveyed as to what they most want from officials, consistency and communication are often the top two items on the list. It never hurts to have good communication, particularly in game-ending situations.

Originally Posted by APG

No need for this...use your voice while selling the timeout...

BEFORE THE PASS, TIMEOUT WHITE!

It should be rare that you have to ever call both coaches over for anything.