Ask a Ref: Pivot Foot & Traveling (Video)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by meddie24

Well thanks for answering ... but doesn't this seem a little strange?

I can't see me every teaching that to a kid ... unless I wanted to simply see what a ref would do in the game when it happened.

And again this is the rule across the board, correct? HS - College - Pro

If this play were a travel (step to the non-pivot, lift the pivot), it would be impossible to execute a layup.

The would be legal in all rule sets. The pro rules do allow more foot movement than HS or college in some cases but this is the same.

[meddie24]

I completely get that, but the easiest way around it and why it looks so funny and may be confusing is because the layup is coming off the forward motion of the dribble instead of the stationary position of the individual pivoting.

Again, I just think a HS ref. would call a travel if the kid caught the ball at the 3pt line and after 3-4 seconds took a one footed super jump with no dribble inward and then leaping off that first landed foot towards the basket tossed the ball towards the hoop before the second foot ever had the chance to touch the ground again.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by meddie24

I completely get that, but the easiest way around it and why it looks so funny and may be confusing is because the layup is coming off the forward motion of the dribble instead of the stationary position of the individual pivoting.

The speed, direction, and pace of the steps is not a factor in the traveling rules

Originally Posted by meddie24

Again, I just think a HS ref. would call a travel if the kid caught the ball at the 3pt line and after 3-4 seconds took a one footed super jump with no dribble inward and then leaping off that first landed foot towards the basket tossed the ball towards the hoop before the second foot ever had the chance to touch the ground again.

You've changed the play.....with one exception a leap (jump) and landing even on one foot is a travel. The movement to the non-pivot foot has to be a step, not a jump.

Assuming it is a step, that official would be incorrect. It is awkward looking but it is upon the official to know the rules, know what the pivot foot is, and apply the rules to it correctly.

[meddie24]

are their specific definitions of what is defined as a step and a leap? At what point does my step turn into a leap, how much distance, how much forward motion, does speed come into play?

One man's step is another man's leap.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by meddie24

are their specific definitions of what is defined as a step and a leap? At what point does my step turn into a leap, how much distance, how much forward motion, does speed come into play?

One man's step is another man's leap.

Judgment. A player who pushes the boundary on this risks getting called for traveling.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by meddie24

Again, I just think a HS ref. would call a travel if the kid caught the ball at the 3pt line and after 3-4 seconds took a one footed super jump with no dribble inward and then leaping off that first landed foot towards the basket tossed the ball towards the hoop before the second foot ever had the chance to touch the ground again.

I disagree with Camron on this (if I am reading it correctly). I have it as legal.

And the rest of the questions you ask are all typical of fans / coaches / players who do not understand that, in general, traveling is lifting the pivot foot an returning it to the floor. All the other statements you make about location, whether the player moves right then left, spinning completely around, are just overthinking it.

[meddie24]

I give direction, position, and movement simply to illustrate a specific move by a player to make it easier to understand what I am asking.

I fully understand what all of you are saying about the pivot foot needing to return to the ground after it being lifted off the ground to be called a 'travel'. I would have to assume this is one of the least understood rules then by the 'non-referre' general public to include the people coaching, teaching, and actually playing the game.

I also believe a good amount of referees do not fully understand or call this correctly in games.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I disagree with Camron on this (if I am reading it correctly). I have it as legal.

I see no part of the travel that allows for a player, while holding the ball, to legally jump and land aside from the 2-footed jump stop.

In the play presented, the player caught the ball while on the floor. It doesn't say whether it was on one foot or two feet.

If it was with both feet on the floor, there is no legal way for the player to jump and return to the floor. When the player jumps from both feet, one of the feet would be considered the pivot foot (think that is in a case play) and...

If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

If the player caught the ball with one foot on the floor, the player could jump, but would have to land with both feet simultaneously for it to be legal and landing on one foot is not landing on both simultaneously.

If one foot is on the floor:
It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

Am I missing something or are we just seeing the play differently?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I see no part of the travel that allows for a player, while holding the ball, to legally jump and land aside from the 2-footed jump stop.

In the play presented, the player caught the ball while on the floor. It doesn't say whether it was on one foot or two feet.

If it was with both feet on the floor, there is no legal way for the player to jump and return to the floor. When the player jumps from both feet, one of the feet would be considered the pivot foot (think that is in a case play) and...

I read it as: catches ball with both feet on the floor. Lifts one foot, jumps / leaps off the other, lands on the first foot only, jumps / leaps off that first foot and shoots the ball while in the air.

Basically, a "really long lay up"

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I read it as: catches ball with both feet on the floor. Lifts one foot, jumps / leaps off the other, lands on the first foot only, jumps / leaps off that first foot and shoots the ball while in the air.

Basically, a "really long lay up"

That would be a travel per the rule I cited, if they jump. If they take a long step, legal.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If this play were a travel (step to the non-pivot, lift the pivot), it would be impossible to execute a layup.

The would be legal in all rule sets. The pro rules do allow more foot movement than HS or college in some cases but this is the same.

The only exception being "street ball" and "pick up" where nobody has actually read a rule book.

If this were to happen in a HS game, the officials would recognize it as legal and half of the fans would be going crazy wondering how the ref missed the call...