More NBA traveling...

[Nevadaref]

Not surprising at all that the NBA continues to ignore blatant traveling violations at critical moments (plays) in games.
One of our video guys can post the clip of the basket by Chicago's Butler with 33.6 seconds remaining in game 3 versus Cleveland.

I'm curious if a professional league that actually enforced the traveling rule instead of allowing the players to just run to basket would have enough appeal to an audience to be successful. Right now, anything goes in terms of footwork as long as points are being scored.

[Jay R]

He moved his pivot foot. What I don't get is why do so many focus on the NBA not calling travels? This same move will go uncalled in many Division 1 games. The officials have gone away from focusing on footwork and focus on contact. This is true at the NBA and NCAA levels, at least what I see on TV. I live in Canada so I won't comment on other levels in the US. Here in Canada, there has been a trickle down effect. Travels are not called the way they were. Good or bad I'm not sure. But why do we criticize the NBA more? Is it because they're supposed to be setting the standard?

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Jay R

He moved his pivot foot. What I don't get is why do so many focus on the NBA not calling travels? This same move will go uncalled in many Division 1 games. The officials have gone away from focusing on footwork and focus on contact. This is true at the NBA and NCAA levels, at least what I see on TV. I live in Canada so I won't comment on other levels in the US. Here in Canada, there has been a trickle down effect. Travels are not called the way they were. Good or bad I'm not sure. But why do we criticize the NBA more? Is it because they're supposed to be setting the standard?

I couldn't have written this comment any better. It's a great question.

IMO, as the game has become more physical, keeping an eye on defenders, particularly their upper bodies where most contact occurs, has become imperative. So it's hard to simultaneously watch the footwork on the separate offensive player. And of course if you're not sure, you can't call it. "Referee the defense!" they say. Good advice, but missing some travels is an obvious pitfall.

Until the game becomes less physical and/or less spread out like it used to be, I don't see travelling calls going up. C'est la vie. To be fair, it's not a huge point of contention for most of the evaluators and clinicians I've come across, so I think they're aware that this is a very hard nut to crack as well.

[potato]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I couldn't have written this comment any better. It's a great question.

IMO, as the game has become more physical, keeping an eye on defenders, particularly their upper bodies where most contact occurs, has become imperative. So it's hard to simultaneously watch the footwork on the separate offensive player. And of course if you're not sure, you can't call it. "Referee the defense!" they say. Good advice, but missing some travels is an obvious pitfall.

Until the game becomes less physical and/or less spread out like it used to be, I don't see travelling calls going up. C'est la vie. To be fair, it's not a huge point of contention for most of the evaluators and clinicians I've come across, so I think they're aware that this is a very hard nut to crack as well.

so in short the game has become more Offensive friendly.

notice uncalled travels are pretty common in this playoff, especially players like Kyrie Irving, that 1 extra step allows them to catch the defenders offguard, which is a huge advantage. but then again things happen so fast i believe most of the time the refs just ask himself:"hey, did he just travelled?".

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not surprising at all that the NBA continues to ignore blatant traveling violations at critical moments (plays) in games.
One of our video guys can post the clip of the basket by Chicago's Butler with 33.6 seconds remaining in game 3 versus Cleveland.

I'm curious if a professional league that actually enforced the traveling rule instead of allowing the players to just run to basket would have enough appeal to an audience to be successful. Right now, anything goes in terms of footwork as long as points are being scored.

They didn't miss it, they were matching up the no-call when LeBron traveled 10 seconds earlier.

[Pantherdreams]

NBA travelling is problematic to discuss for 3 reasons:

1) Notable rule differences. PIvot feet (and movement of) are not ruled and regulated the same as NFHS and FIBA. So while there are a lot of uncalled travels some of those are uncalled because the NBA rules set says its not and/creates more too close to tell situations.

2) Much like the NCAA experience we are starting to see NBA only wants to get the ones that are clearly obvious, in contested matchups and that gain an immediate advantage they wouldn't have gotten without one.

3) NBA officials like to work too. Unless they meet and talk about it and decide in all games regular season and playoffs to call more of these they are better off not calling to be consistent.


In terms of traveling in general I think that if the NCAA and other sports leagues can get past the idea of nobody wants to see you shoot 30 free throws/ 30 travelling calls. I think the travel call actually cleans up a lot of the stuff in the game people see as wrong with it. Defenders don't need to be as physical if they know players can't be as explosive or run away. Offense needs to have better footwork and better footwork I'm assuming would translate to time on footwork translating to a dribble, shot etc leading to better skilled players. Maybe thats naieve.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

2) Much like the NCAA experience we are starting to see NBA only wants to get the ones that are clearly obvious, in contested matchups and that gain an immediate advantage they wouldn't have gotten without one.

Those are often the ones missed.

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

In terms of traveling in general I think that if the NCAA and other sports leagues can get past the idea of nobody wants to see you shoot 30 free throws/ 30 travelling calls. I think the travel call actually cleans up a lot of the stuff in the game people see as wrong with it. Defenders don't need to be as physical if they know players can't be as explosive or run away. Offense needs to have better footwork and better footwork I'm assuming would translate to time on footwork translating to a dribble, shot etc leading to better skilled players. Maybe thats naieve.

Just like any calls, the players will adjust. It will never get to 30 travels (or 30 FTs) if it just gets called consistently. It only gets to 30 in some games if you have some officials not calling it and others calling it. The teams and player will, in a little time, adjust their play to what gets called, if it is called consistently. If not, the players will not know, from game to game, what is or is not legal.

And, to that point, it will NEVER be consistently called if the "expectation" of what should be called is not what the rules define. Either call it by what the rules specify OR change the rules to match what is really wanted.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by camron rust

...it will never be consistently called if the "expectation" of what should be called is not what the rules define.

+1

[potato]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Those are often the ones missed.

You can see alot of Kyrie Irving's contested layups are actually travel, but refs are focusing on defensive contacts rather than offensive footworks, unless the refs split the task like dude you watch the offense i watch the defense, it's hard for 1 ref to pay so much attention on something so quick like footwork & lose focus on contacts.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

...1) Notable rule differences. PIvot feet (and movement of) are not ruled and regulated the same as NFHS and FIBA. So while there are a lot of uncalled travels some of those are uncalled because the NBA rules set says its not and/creates more too close to tell situations.
...

This is the only thing that bothers me about some people that constantly attack the NBA about how they call or don't call traveling violations. The rules are not the same as college and lower.

And don't forget that the NBA, like all professional leagues, are businesses. They are there to make money. They are not there to uphold the integrity of the game. Heck, you can probably say that about the college game too. High School? Probably not. But as long as it's still entertaining (aka "making money") then don't expect any big changes.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not surprising at all that the NBA continues to ignore blatant traveling violations at critical moments (plays) in games.
One of our video guys can post the clip of the basket by Chicago's Butler with 33.6 seconds remaining in game 3 versus Cleveland.

I'm curious if a professional league that actually enforced the traveling rule instead of allowing the players to just run to basket would have enough appeal to an audience to be successful. Right now, anything goes in terms of footwork as long as points are being scored.

If it makes you feel any better the NBA did determine the play was an incorrect no-call.

Last Two-Minute Report | NBA Official

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If it makes you feel any better the NBA did determine the play was an incorrect no-call.

Last Two-Minute Report | NBA Official

It does make me think more of the behind-the-scenes of NBA officiating that both this play and the one involving James about 15 seconds earlier were classified as INCs. Now how do we get to the point where the review process has a substantial impact upon what the guys call on the court?

Btw, posting the video (and a worse one) of the play doesn't provide the information. You wanted to post this link instead: http://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-cont...-15-GAME-3.pdf

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Now how do we get to the point where the review process has a substantial impact upon what the guys call on the court?

Nevada, in case you haven't heard NBA refs are not robots. I'd wager there will continue to be missed travels (and all other types of calls) in the NBA game for the foreseeable future despite the review process. It isn't like they are missing these travels intentionally.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Btw, posting the video (and a worse one) of the play doesn't provide the information. You wanted to post this link instead: http://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-cont...-15-GAME-3.pdf

Actually I posted what I felt was relevant, which is the play and the video is the same that's on the league's web site. I figured explaining the NBA ruled it an INC was enough.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Nevada, in case you haven't heard NBA refs are not robots. I'd wager there will continue to be missed travels (and all other types of calls) in the NBA game for the foreseeable future despite the review process. It isn't like they are missing these travels intentionally.

And yeah, they're human. They miss calls. It happens.

[mcuban]

Im back

The question really is a 2 parter

1. How can you change mechanics to catch travelling

or

2. How can you simplify the rules so that some of the nuanced travels are no longer travels. Do we make it 3 steps ? And why not ?

Across the board we are going to be looking for ways to make the life of an official easier. How can we simplify the rules and remove some of the more difficult calls.

As has been said here before, players will adjust.

I think we make the game too hard for the officials

Anyone have ideas on how we can simplify the rules ?