More NBA traveling...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If it makes you feel any better the NBA did determine the play was an incorrect no-call.

Last Two-Minute Report | NBA Official

It does make me think more of the behind-the-scenes of NBA officiating that both this play and the one involving James about 15 seconds earlier were classified as INCs. Now how do we get to the point where the review process has a substantial impact upon what the guys call on the court?

Btw, posting the video (and a worse one) of the play doesn't provide the information. You wanted to post this link instead: http://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-cont...-15-GAME-3.pdf

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Now how do we get to the point where the review process has a substantial impact upon what the guys call on the court?

Nevada, in case you haven't heard NBA refs are not robots. I'd wager there will continue to be missed travels (and all other types of calls) in the NBA game for the foreseeable future despite the review process. It isn't like they are missing these travels intentionally.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Btw, posting the video (and a worse one) of the play doesn't provide the information. You wanted to post this link instead: http://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-cont...-15-GAME-3.pdf

Actually I posted what I felt was relevant, which is the play and the video is the same that's on the league's web site. I figured explaining the NBA ruled it an INC was enough.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Nevada, in case you haven't heard NBA refs are not robots. I'd wager there will continue to be missed travels (and all other types of calls) in the NBA game for the foreseeable future despite the review process. It isn't like they are missing these travels intentionally.

And yeah, they're human. They miss calls. It happens.

[mcuban]

Im back

The question really is a 2 parter

1. How can you change mechanics to catch travelling

or

2. How can you simplify the rules so that some of the nuanced travels are no longer travels. Do we make it 3 steps ? And why not ?

Across the board we are going to be looking for ways to make the life of an official easier. How can we simplify the rules and remove some of the more difficult calls.

As has been said here before, players will adjust.

I think we make the game too hard for the officials

Anyone have ideas on how we can simplify the rules ?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mcuban

Im back

The question really is a 2 parter

1. How can you change mechanics to catch travelling

or

2. How can you simplify the rules so that some of the nuanced travels are no longer travels. Do we make it 3 steps ? And why not ?

Across the board we are going to be looking for ways to make the life of an official easier. How can we simplify the rules and remove some of the more difficult calls.

As has been said here before, players will adjust.

I think we make the game too hard for the officials

Anyone have ideas on how we can simplify the rules ?

Simple, officials need to get full support for calling those travels that everyone says are not "obvious" or are just "technically traveling", to include telling coaches they can't complain about travel calls that are made.

[mcuban]

They have that support.

Originally Posted by mcuban

Im back

The question really is a 2 parter

1. How can you change mechanics to catch travelling

or

2. How can you simplify the rules so that some of the nuanced travels are no longer travels. Do we make it 3 steps ? And why not ?

Across the board we are going to be looking for ways to make the life of an official easier. How can we simplify the rules and remove some of the more difficult calls.

As has been said here before, players will adjust.

I think we make the game too hard for the officials

Anyone have ideas on how we can simplify the rules ?

Officiating is as much rules knowledge and judgement as it is knowing where to look when. Even with a 1 on 1 matchup you have to referee feet, body, and arms at the same time. Sometimes you have to split your attention or pay more attention to one area which allows stuff to fall through the cracks. Imo traveling gets the short straw when it comes to reffing the contact versus reffing the feet, and rightly so.

I think the way traveling is officiated is a problem. I only see maybe one obvious travel per game (out of 180ish possessions in an NBA game) that goes uncalled. I could care less about the less obvious, "technical" ones, but it's not like the refs are missing those on purpose -- they have more important stuff to look at.

Edit: I went back and looked at the Jimmy Butler play in the OP. Lead could have seen it, but he was probably watching the defenders. Slot couldn't see the feet through the backs of three players, and Trail (who probably would have picked this up had he stayed at FTLE) bailed early following the rotation. I'd chock this one up to bad positioning by the Trail. How do you fix this? Either get refs who are better at positioning or add more eyes on the floor.

[Nevadaref]

There are a few things contributing to the NBA's traveling problem:
1. The League is about making money and believes that offense sells tickets and attracts TV viewership, which equates to advertising $ and TV contract revenue. The NBA does not want the high-flying dunks and spin-moves negated by traveling calls from the officials because the offensive player used illegal footwork in making the crowd-pleasing play. This is the mentality which it has bred into its fans and is now a victim of its own creation. It will be very difficult to get people to accept strict policing of footwork as occurred 40 years ago.

2. The athletes are amazing physical specimens. They are HUGE men who are agile, strong, and quick. Therefore, the speed of play is quite fast and it can be difficult for the officials to discern the footwork even when in the proper position, but it seems that more frequently the issue is that the sightlines become blocked by other players. At the NCAA tournament this year an NBA scout told me that the biggest difference between the pro and college game was how much the NBA players shrink the floor. They are so big, long, and fast that the amount of time and space which offensive players have to operate is greatly lessened. The only practical solution is to enlarge the playing court. This would spread the players out more and provide better views for the officials.

3. The language of the NBA traveling rule is vague and unclear. There is something about a two-count rhythm being permitted after catching the ball. I have no idea what that means and I've officiated HS and college. Is that steps, seconds, heartbeats, times a shoe may contact the floor (same foot or both feet)? I truly believe that the fans, players, and officials are unsure about the rule because of this language. Therefore officials have to allow questionable footwork in catching the ball at the end of a dribble or when receiving a pass while in motion. They just aren't certain what is illegal and should be penalized. This text needs to be rewritten. I would prefer seeing the language used by FIBA or the NCAA. In any case the rules for traveling need to be consistent throughout HS, college, and the professional ranks. This would permit players and officials to develop familiarity with proper footwork as they advance up the levels of competition.
Note that I purposely criticized a blatant traveling violation from a playoff game which did NOT involve a player just receiving the ball, but one in which he already had it, in an attempt to avoid the argument that the NBA traveling rule is different (from HS, college, and FIBA).

4. The players are valuable commodities to the teams and the league. They make large salaries and protecting them from injury is a high priority. That mandates that the officials concentrate on contact first and illegal footwork thereafter. Also coaches, players, and TV announcers complain about illegal contact frequently, but harp on traveling much less. Thus the focus of the officials is going to be on the area for which these people express more concern. Curiously, if the footwork were required to be more precise the game would effectively be slowed down as players in possession of the ball couldn't get a running start or gain extra speed from an additional step and the collisions would be lessened and not as severe, resulting in better player safety.

The NBA could consider going to four officials instead of three as hockey did several years ago. This would permit the officials to already be places and not have to be moving along with the players in an attempt to achieve a better angle from which to call plays. Calls are mostly missed during rotations and while officials are moving. The extra person would allow more "divide and conquer" techniques to be used by officials both in areas of court coverage as well as observing the different body parts of the players. It's not possible to closely look for fouls on the head and arms of 7-foot men jumping high into the air and simultaneously observe their feet. The issue is the same whether the action is a contested dunk attempt at the rim or a 3-pt shot. One officials can't watch both high and low, so two officials must be observing this action and when two officials can't physically get in position to see these plays there is a low chance of them being called fully correctly. The single official who can see it must prioritize what to look for, and that default is contact first, footwork last.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

3. The language of the NBA traveling rule is vague and unclear. There is something about a two-count rhythm being permitted after catching the ball. I have no idea what that means and I've officiated HS and college. Is that steps, seconds, heartbeats, times a shoe may contact the floor (same foot or both feet)? I truly believe that the fans, players, and officials are unsure about the rule because of this language. Therefore officials have to allow questionable footwork in catching the ball at the end of a dribble or when receiving a pass while in motion. They just aren't certain what is illegal and should be penalized. This text needs to be rewritten. I would prefer seeing the language used by FIBA or the NCAA. In any case the rules for traveling need to be consistent throughout HS, college, and the professional ranks. This would permit players and officials to develop familiarity with proper footwork as they advance up the levels of competition.
Note that I purposely criticized a blatant traveling violation from a playoff game which did NOT involve a player just receiving the ball, but one in which he already had it, in an attempt to avoid the argument that the NBA traveling rule is different (from HS, college, and FIBA).

Here's the NBA travel rule as written in this year's rule book. I really don't see anything vague or unclear. There are terms we don't use but it's a different game from ours. As has been said, the rule is different from NF and NCAA though a lot of things are the same.

As for being the same from HS up to the pro level, why? They're better than HS and college players and they're also entertainers. If you think no one goes to a HS or college game to see officials call traveling that's really the case in an NBA game. Again, better to miss some travels than miss some fouls.

Section XIII—Traveling
a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.
A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step.
The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.
The second step occurs after the first step when the other foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.
A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.
A player who lands with one foot first may only pivot using that foot.
A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.
c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.
d. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
e. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.
f. A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.
g. A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player.
h. Upon ending his dribble or gaining control of the ball, a player may not touch the floor consecutively with the same foot (hop).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Edit: I went back and looked at the Jimmy Butler play in the OP. Lead could have seen it, but he was probably watching the defenders. Slot couldn't see the feet through the backs of three players, and Trail (who probably would have picked this up had he stayed at FTLE) bailed early following the rotation. I'd chock this one up to bad positioning by the Trail. How do you fix this? Either get refs who are better at positioning or add more eyes on the floor.

We also don't want all three officials watching the action where the ball is. Who would be observing the off-ball battles for potential rebounding position or any screening action?
The Slot shouldn't be looking to help with a travel under the basket. He need to focus his attention off-ball. The Trail would be the Lead's only source of help in such a situation and he could easily get blocked out.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

... Either get refs who are better at positioning or add more eyes on the floor.

No one works and studies harder for proper positioning than NBA refs. I just do not think travels are their number 1 look.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No one works and studies harder for proper positioning than NBA refs. I just do not think travels are their number 1 look.

The problem is that the offensive players become unguardable when permitted to travel. The only possible results are defensive fouls or made baskets.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The problem is that the offensive players become unguardable when permitted to travel. The only possible results are defensive fouls or made baskets.

I think that's what the NBA wants.

If NBA officials were told to look for and call more travels, they would.

[mcuban]

Actually. There are a couple split foot travels missed a game

I guess the question is whether those give a player an advantage

Originally Posted by mcuban

They have that support.

Originally Posted by mcuban

Actually. There are a couple split foot travels missed a game

I guess the question is whether those give a player an advantage

The refs have fine support from the league, that's not the problem.

I guess we need to consider whether the missed calls are a function of the refs seeing them and not calling them or the refs not seeing them at all. Individually they might look poor but as a whole the refs call traveling pretty consistently. That's my eye test, but your data may show otherwise.