Massachusetts D3 semifinals in Mass End of Regulation (Video)

[APG]

As the behest of BayStateRef:

Four things to note:

Positioning of official nearest camera (actually the C).
Contact on White 10 that is ignored.
Good basket or not?
Should crew get together after horn to discuss final shot?

[Bad Zebra]

1. It appears current C may have missed the last rotation and is still at T.
2. Can't see contact from the camera angle. If I'm at that angle on the floor, I have nothing.
3. In slow mo, ball is resting on shooter's (actually tapper's) hands when backboard light goes off...no goal.
4. Coming together and discussing would be advisable...provided SOMEBODY on the crew has a definitive answer as to whether it should count.

[Nevadaref]

1. The official is not in the normal "home" position for a Center, but he actually may have a better angle to judge the contact on W10. I can't say that being a few feet higher here impacts the decisions.
2. I believe that W10 is fouled while an airborne shooter. The defender undercuts him.
3. The final putback is clearly late and should not have counted. The video can be paused with the ball still in his hands and the red lights on to prove this, but I thought late in real speed. Too bad for the team which lost.
4. If another crew member is 100%, then this info should be communicated to the calling official before they depart. If another official is the R and he disagrees with the C, he has the authority to overrule this particular decision.
PS the crew did well to not call a foul in favor of the initial ball handler near the FT line. The defender was legal and the ball handler moved into him.

[bob jenkins]

Is there video review / monitor available at the D-3 semis? If so, the last shot would / should be reviewed (but not changed).

for the rest, I agree with Nevada and Bad Zebra (except I think there's enough from the video to get a foul)

[Raymond]

Lead needs to be engaged. He is just standing there not focused at all on the rebounding action.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Lead needs to be engaged. He is just standing there not focused at all on the rebounding action.

What exactly would you like the Lead to do on this play?
In my opinion a rotation is not advisable as there is a shot from the FT line.
He can't call a foul for Red putting his backside into W10 on the way down as he is straight-lined from this contact. There may be a slight touch on the left wrist as W10 gathers the rebound, but that's hard to tell and he should not come across the lane for something that isn't obvious and with such little time remaining.
He may not even be able to judge the last shot as he has a great view of the release, but the red lights on the backboard may be too high for him to clearly observe from his endline position. Perhaps he can see the lights illuminate on the backboard at the far end of the court while looking at the shooter.
I think that it's hard to find fault with the Lead for anything here.

[MathReferee]

1. I have no problem with the starting position based on the players positioning for the inbounds pass. Would think he might have moved down as soon as the ball was received.
2. Looks like W10 gets undercut.
3. Shot was late.
4. Considering he counted it right away, I would assume no monitor available and we have to let him die with it unless we are certain or have other information to give him.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Is there video review / monitor available at the D-3 semis? If so, the last shot would / should be reviewed (but not changed).

for the rest, I agree with Nevada and Bad Zebra (except I think there's enough from the video to get a foul)

If there is video review available, I think it should be used (I believe Rule 11 doesn't specify certain divisions of play it applies to, just whether it's available or not). It looked like a big/modern facility, so I'd be surprised if video wasn't available. Maybe it was but they just didn't pay a technician to operate it.

Anyway, if you could review, yes you should, and in disagreement with Bob, why wouldn't you change it? The ball was clearly dead before release.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

3. The final putback is clearly late and should not have counted. The video can be paused with the ball still in his hands and the red lights on to prove this, but I thought late in real speed. Too bad for the team which lost.
4. If another crew member is 100%, then this info should be communicated to the calling official before they depart. If another official is the R and he disagrees with the C, he has the authority to overrule this particular decision.
PS the crew did well to not call a foul in favor of the initial ball handler near the FT line. The defender was legal and the ball handler moved into him.

And yet, the light came on when the clock on top of the basket flips from 0.2 to 0.1, not when it flips from 0.1 to 0.0. So, the light and the clock are slightly out of sync. The ball was still in his hand when it was also on 0.0 so that doesn't change anything. Perhaps the horn was later still (sound travels just a bit slower).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

If there is video review available, I think it should be used (I believe Rule 11 doesn't specify certain divisions of play it applies to, just whether it's available or not). It looked like a big/modern facility, so I'd be surprised if video wasn't available. Maybe it was but they just didn't pay a technician to operate it.

Anyway, if you could review, yes you should, and in disagreement with Bob, why wouldn't you change it? The ball was clearly dead before release.

I'm sorry -- I thought the shot was waived off initially. That's why I said not to change it.

[RefCT]

I believe the D-3 here refers to the MA HS division and this is being played under Fed rules, so a replay couldn't help since it is not a state final.

Edit - Confirmed it is a high school game and it was in its 2nd OT - http://highschoolsports.masslive.com...te-semifinals/

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And yet, the light came on when the clock on top of the basket flips from 0.2 to 0.1, not when it flips from 0.1 to 0.0. So, the light and the clock are slightly out of sync. The ball was still in his hand when it was also on 0.0 so that doesn't change anything. Perhaps the horn was later still (sound travels just a bit slower).

As I'm sure that you are aware, the numbers on the clock don't matter when there is a red light on or behind the backboard under NFHS rules. The light is the signal which ends the period when it is present.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

..
He can't call a foul for Red putting his backside into W10 on the way down as he is straight-lined from this contact. There may be a slight touch on the left wrist as W10 gathers the rebound, but that's hard to tell and he should not come across the lane for something that isn't obvious and with such little time remaining.
....

He is straight-lined because he didn't move to get an open look at the rebound. There are less than 5 seconds left, he should be working to see the ball, IMO.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by RefCT

I believe the D-3 here refers to the MA HS division and this is being played under Fed rules, so a replay couldn't help since it is not a state final.

Edit - Confirmed it is a high school game and it was in its 2nd OT -

Sorry, but this is not correct. It is end of regulation and Fed rules do allow replay.

This is a H.S. Division 3 state semifinal game (winner of the next game is state champion). D1 has the largest schools; D4 has the smallest.

While the game clock above the scoreboard shows 0.1 when the light comes on, the "main" clock above the floor showed 0:00. I know this has been a problem (conflicting clocks) at other big arenas. Regardless, the red light rules.

Let's be real clear about the rules, since few of us work high school games with replays.

TV replay is allowed "during state championship series" (2-2-1 note) to determine if the shot should count. I don't think there was a TV crew (and monitor) available, so while it is allowed by rule, it requires some effort to have everything in place.

While there is nothing spelled out about "state championship series," there is no doubt the semifinal game is part of that series. I think every playoff game qualifies under this rule, since they all are part of the "championship series." But most early round games are played at local high schools with no TV available. Starting with the regional semifinals, games are played at larger arenas (college venues, large high schools and even NBA arenas). But I do not think there has been any replay available since this rule was inserted a few years ago.

White was losing by 2 at the time (end of regulation.) It eventually lost in double OT, so these calls had no direct bearing on which team won.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As I'm sure that you are aware, the numbers on the clock don't matter when there is a red light on or behind the backboard under NFHS rules. The light is the signal which ends the period when it is present.

Just pointing out that the two devices are not quite in sync.

Electrically speaking, a light, particularly if it is LED based, is faster to turn on than triggering the numbers on the clock. So, when the "0" signal is sent to the various clocks and the LED light, the LED light behind the board could appear before the clock shifts to 0.0....and it (the LED light) would be the accurate indicator. That is why it is the official indicator when present.