Controversial end to Oregon Tournament Game

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by StripedYooper

The whistle should be blown at the end of the quarter. However the quarter doesn't end until a shot attempt ends. While the ball is in the air there shouldn't be a whistle. Blowing it at the sound of the horn is not correct. Rule 6.7.5 exception a.

I agree that the FED has not established an official way to end a quarter. However, (Rule 1.14) "...... the audible timer's signal shall indicate that time has expired." I am not saying the whistle automatically ends the quarter or ends a try for goal if the shot is in the air. Putting a whistle to the audible signal/horn gives that official, as well as everyone in the gym, a reference as to where the ball is at that point. How would you ever get in trouble by putting a whistle to the scoreboard's horn at the end of a quarter?

In the OP, the T's whistle is a full second after the horn. Had he put a whistle on the horn, it may have helped him establish the fact that the ball was out of the shooter's hand at the time the horn sounded.

[StripedYooper]

Agreed that if that shot was after the horn the whistle should have been blown a lot sooner. Also, it would be an ideal time to sell it (see other thread). The video didn't instill confidence that the shot was late. However, based upon the single clip I can't tell if it was after the horn or not.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by StripedYooper

Agreed that if that shot was after the horn the whistle should have been blown a lot sooner. Also, it would be an ideal time to sell it (see other thread). The video didn't instill confidence that the shot was late. However, based upon the single clip I can't tell if it was after the horn or not.

Agree. Agree...video(s) inconclusive.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Agree. Agree...video(s) inconclusive.

Is this for real?

Do not get me wrong, there but for the grace of God go all of us into a pickle like this, but nothing about the second video is inconclusive.

Really nothing inconclusive about the first either (unless you are hearing-impaired) as the ball is already coming through the net when the horn sounds.

[CNYREF]

6A playoffs and they're still doing 2 man? That's a disgrace

[ODog]

Since the clock is not visible in either video, perhaps the T observed it not starting properly and used his visible count (good mechanic by him, especially since a 10-second count was not in play) to measure the remaining time rather than blow a frantic final play dead in mid-dribble/pass/shot.

So when/if THAT time ran out, he blew it dead, albeit uncomfortably late, given that it came well after the horn.

I guess the video is inconclusive after all. Apologies for popping off 2 posts earlier. What is not inconclusive is whether the release of the shot beat the horn.

Whether that horn signaled the end of a final sequence that began with a proper start we will likely never know, since video of such would surely have surfaced by now.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

I agree that the FED has not established an official way to end a quarter. However, (Rule 1.14) "...... the audible timer's signal shall indicate that time has expired." I am not saying the whistle automatically ends the quarter or ends a try for goal if the shot is in the air. Putting a whistle to the audible signal/horn gives that official, as well as everyone in the gym, a reference as to where the ball is at that point. How would you ever get in trouble by putting a whistle to the scoreboard's horn at the end of a quarter?

In the OP, the T's whistle is a full second after the horn. Had he put a whistle on the horn, it may have helped him establish the fact that the ball was out of the shooter's hand at the time the horn sounded.

I'm not putting whistle on the play until it is dead. That means immediately if the ball is still in the shooter's hand when time expires. A legal shot in mid-flight is not getting a whistle from me. I will hit my whistle the shot goes through the basket or when it is obvious that the shot is no good.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not putting whistle on the play until it is dead. That means immediately if the ball is still in the shooter's hand when time expires. A legal shot in mid-flight is not getting a whistle from me. I will hit my whistle the shot goes through the basket or when it is obvious that the shot is no good.

Me, too.

And, fwiw, this specific procedure is in the NCAW CCA manual.

[griblets]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not putting whistle on the play until it is dead. That means immediately if the ball is still in the shooter's hand when time expires. A legal shot in mid-flight is not getting a whistle from me. I will hit my whistle the shot goes through the basket or when it is obvious that the shot is no good.

Agree 100%.

[BillyMac]

Our local guys have been instructed not to sound the whistle to end a period, unless something "weird" happens to end the period (foul right before horn, shot not released before horn sounds, horn doesn't sound with all zeros, etc.)

I don't believe that there is anything in the NFHS Rulebook that states that an official shall sound his whistle at the end of a period. I don't believe that there's anything in the IAABO Mechanics Manual that that states that an official shall sound his whistle at the end of a period. I don't have access to a NFHS Mechanics Manual, but I would like to know what it states. A little help please ...

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Our local guys have been instructed not to sound the whistle to end a period, unless something "weird" happens to end the period (foul right before horn, shot not released before horn sounds, horn doesn't sound with all zeros, etc.)

I don't believe that there is anything in the NFHS Rulebook that states that an official shall sound his whistle at the end of a period. I don't believe that there's anything in the IAABO Mechanics Manual that that states that an official shall sound his whistle at the end of a period. I don't have access to a NFHS Mechanics Manual, but I would like to know what it states. A little help please ...

With the way they want us here to limit the number of unnecessary whistles, ie don't whistle subs in(unless timer is asleep), I don't see the need to whistle the end of the period either when its obvious that the whistle isnt needed.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not putting whistle on the play until it is dead. That means immediately if the ball is still in the shooter's hand when time expires. A legal shot in mid-flight is not getting a whistle from me. I will hit my whistle the shot goes through the basket or when it is obvious that the shot is no good.

100% correct as there could be a rebounding foul while the ball is still live during the try. If IUgrad has already blown his whistle, people are going to ask what his whistle was for and how does that impact the subsequent foul call.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

100% correct as there could be a rebounding foul while the ball is still live during the try. If IUgrad has already blown his whistle, people are going to ask what his whistle was for and how does that impact the subsequent foul call.

And all easily explainable to any coach Nevada, IF it were to get to that point. You are giving hypotheticals and I'm dealing with the play at hand. I personally did not 'make up' the mechanic I use for end of quarters, rather came from veteran HS, state level officials that I had as mentors when I first started. I'm not saying to anyone they have to do it my way, I'm just throwing it out there as an option, something to think about, maybe something to try.

IMO, had the T in the OP attempted to put a whistle to the horn, it could have possibly forced his cognitive side to come to the correct conclusion that the ball was clearly out of the shooter's hand at the time the horn sounded. Rather, it looks like perhaps he used the technique as espoused by you and BNR, which is completely fine. However, the end result for the T, at least in this particular circumstance, is that he got it wrong.

[Texref]

IUGrad if that is what is done in your area, then by all means blow your whistle when the horn goes. There is not one person that has replied that agrees with that "mechanic" as all it does is add confusion. The only time your whistle should coincide with the horn nm is if you are blowing the shot dead, otherwise, as has been stated previously, your whistle should not come until the try is good or is obvious it will be missed.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by Texref

IUGrad if that is what is done in your area, then by all means blow your whistle when the horn goes. There is not one person that has replied that agrees with that "mechanic" as all it does is add confusion. The only time your whistle should coincide with the horn nm is if you are blowing the shot dead, otherwise, as has been stated previously, your whistle should not come until the try is good or is obvious it will be missed.

As I believe it was stated earlier, the FED has not come forth with how a whistle should end a quarter, so what you state is your opinion for HS ball and I agree we all need to try to do things as they are done in our own respective areas.

I can just tell you that in 18+ years I have not had one case of added confusion. If anything it has only added clarity, as I've been a part of my fair share of 'buzzer beaters'/shots taken close to the horn, and I have never left the court with the confusion I see in the OP or with a coach still wondering why I counted the basket or why I waved it off. It just simply has never happened.

You have every right to add conjecture as to what 'might' happen with my "mechanic", but at the same time, I can give actual testimony of 18+ years of using it.

Maybe you would be willing to put your two cents as to why there was so much confusion at the end of this OP video and if you think it was the correct call?