The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:46pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Throw-in violations

In another recent thread there was a question about a throw-in violation, which caused me to review the rule and case books on this subject. As in other rules, the case book adds things which could not be determined from the rule alone. First, if the thrower steps inbounds with either foot, it's a violation. Everyone knows that. But why? The thrower shall not carry the ball onto the court? Thrower is standing out of bounds and touches inbounds with one foot. I wouldn't have considered this carrying the ball onto the court. But, this one takes it even further: 9.2.5 says that if thrower A1 reaches out and touches B1 it is a violation because touching the player gives A1 inbounds status.


Huh?
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 16, 2015, 07:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 76
This makes sense if I consider that a player stepping OB still has on court status during a live ball... Which is why a player can throw the ball off them even when they're OB.
However, since the ball has OB status - the player with the ball also does...? Therefore he can't touch a ball with OB status - if he is live...
Whats the penalty?
__________________
"Coach, that was an easy call for me to make"
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 16, 2015, 07:43pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeyes View Post
This makes sense if I consider that a player stepping OB still has on court status during a live ball...

What is "on court" status? A player (one of the five in the game for each team) may have either inbounds or out of bounds status. If anything is touching out of bounds, his status is out of bounds, whether anything is touching inbounds or not.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 16, 2015, 08:04pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Rules Are Rules ...

9-2-Note: The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she does not touch the inbounds
area or a player inbounds before the ball is released on the throw-in pass.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 16, 2015, 08:07pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
In another recent thread there was a question about a throw-in violation, which caused me to review the rule and case books on this subject. As in other rules, the case book adds things which could not be determined from the rule alone. First, if the thrower steps inbounds with either foot, it's a violation. Everyone knows that. But why? The thrower shall not carry the ball onto the court? Thrower is standing out of bounds and touches inbounds with one foot. I wouldn't have considered this carrying the ball onto the court. But, this one takes it even further: 9.2.5 says that if thrower A1 reaches out and touches B1 it is a violation because touching the player gives A1 inbounds status.


Huh?
I can't find it, but I thought I remembered a case or interp that stated A1 is not considered OOB if he touches a person standing OOB. Seems this case play goes against that concept.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 16, 2015, 08:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I can't find it, but I thought I remembered a case or interp that stated A1 is not considered OOB if he touches a person standing OOB. Seems this case play goes against that concept.
That is true for an inbounds A1. No case needed, the rule is pretty clear on what causes a player to be OOB and touching a person is not among the reasons.

Not sure why it would be different for a thrower who is OOB.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 16, 2015, 08:55pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
9-2-Note: The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she does not touch the inbounds
area or a player inbounds before the ball is released on the throw-in pass.

Yeah, of course. Thanks, Billy. I should have known that was there without looking. But, just to continue to be difficult, why is this limiting factor mentioned only in the note? It seems as worthy of an article of its own as anything else.

The thrower shall not touch the inbounds area or a player inbounds before releasing the pass.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 16, 2015, 09:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I can't find it, but I thought I remembered a case or interp that stated A1 is not considered OOB if he touches a person standing OOB. Seems this case play goes against that concept.
Its the first play rule 7 case book. player holding ball inbounds touching another player, coach, other person out of bounds is still inbounds. Billy attached the note. Thrower in cant touch a person inbounds. Case play is screwed up as justanother points out. It is likely trying to say that B1 has inbound status and when A1, the thrower in touches him he has violated. A1 touching B1 does not make B1 out of bounds and certainly does not make A1 have inbound status. A1 has violated. they got confused in their rules...
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:03am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
The ruling in the OP was first posted but he NFHS in the on-line interps.
We stated back then that the reason for the ruling was bogus.
If the NFHS feels that a thrower doing this gains an unfair advantage and wants to make this a throw-in violation, that's fine, but don't try to justify it by stating something which everyone knows is untrue. A thrower most certainly does NOT gain inbounds status by merely touching an inbounds player.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tennessee Throw In Violations??? Hartsy Basketball 3 Fri Mar 23, 2007 03:05pm
Free throw violations? Teigan Basketball 3 Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:37am
Free throw violations lukealex Basketball 15 Thu Mar 02, 2006 01:48pm
free throw violations pinchmaster Basketball 16 Sat Dec 31, 2005 01:10am
Cleaning up Throw In Violations Ref Daddy Basketball 12 Fri Jan 07, 2005 06:57pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1