Closely Guarded With Screen ...

[BillyMac]

I didn't get any interest on this (below) as a slight twist in the recent "NFHS Closely Guarded Rule History" thread, so I figured I would give it a try as it's own thread.

This was on an IAABO Refresher Exam about fifteen years ago. B1 closely guards ball handler A1. A1 dribbles around a screen legally set by A2, screener A2 is momentarily between A1, and B1, but B1 is still within six feet of A1 the entire time. Five seconds elapse and the official calls a five second closely guarded violation on A1. Is the official correct?

It's kind of fuzzy, but I thought that I answered, "Yes", and got it wrong. IAABO may have admitted that it was a bad answer, and I believe that it was due to a difference between the NCAA rule, and the NFHS rule. IAABO confused? Who would have guessed?

What is the right answer for NFHS, and is it any different for NCAA?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I didn't get any interest on this (below) as a slight twist in the recent "NFHS Closely Guarded Rule History" thread, so I figured I would give it a try as it's own thread.

This was on an IAABO Refresher Exam about fifteen years ago. B1 closely guards ball handler A1. A1 dribbles around a screen legally set by A2, screener A2 is momentarily between A1, and B1, but B1 is still within six feet of A1 the entire time. Five seconds elapse and the official calls a five second closely guarded violation on A1. Is the official correct?

It's kind of fuzzy, but I thought that I answered, "Yes", and got it wrong. IAABO may have admitted that it was a bad answer, and I believe that it was due to a difference between the NCAA rule, and the NFHS rule. IAABO confused? Who would have guessed?

What is the right answer for NFHS, and is it any different for NCAA?

Good morning Bill:

I hope you are getting unburied from all of the snow you guys are getting. The temperature here is -8F with a wind chill of -25F.

Any who! The correct ruling for both NFHS and NCAA would be that a new count starts. I cannot see how an IAABO Interpreter would rule otherwise.

We haven't had much snow lately (but we still have a lot on the ground). Mark, Jr., and I had a boys' JrHS DH at 9am yesterday and we had one 3 mile stretch of country road on the drive back home where we had white out conditions and came across one car that had driven off the road into a drainage ditch.

But the temperature has been steadily dropping since yesterday morning. Mark's game last night (girls' JV) was rescheduled for Monday night because of the low temperature and wind chill. His partner can't officiate that night so I am his new partner, poor kid.

We are supposed to officiate in a boys' 5th/6th grade tournament today at 1pm, but are wondering if it will be canceled because of the temperature and wind chill.

Have a great day everybody!

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

1. Let it go, it's been 15 years.
2. I'm continuing my count in this situation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The correct ruling for ... NFHS ... would be that a new count starts.

NFHS citation please.

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm continuing my count in this situation.

Agree.

SECTION 9-10 CLOSELY GUARDED
ART. 1 A player shall not while closely guarded:
a. In his/her frontcourt, hold the ball for five seconds or dribble the ball for
five seconds.
b. In his/her frontcourt, control the ball for five seconds in an area enclosed
by screening teammates.
ART. 2 A closely guarded count shall not be started during an interrupted
dribble.
ART. 3 A closely guarded count shall be terminated during an interrupted
dribble.

SECTION 4-10 CLOSELY GUARDED
A closely guarded situation occurs when a player in control of the ball in his/her
team’s frontcourt, is continuously guarded by any opponent who is within six feet
of the player who is holding or dribbling the ball. The distance shall be measured
from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball
handler. A closely guarded count shall be terminated when the offensive player in
control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past the defensive player.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

SECTION 4-10 CLOSELY GUARDED
A closely guarded situation occurs when a player in control of the ball in his/her
team’s frontcourt, is continuously guarded by any opponent who is within six feet
of the player who is holding or dribbling the ball. The distance shall be measured
from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball
handler. A closely guarded count shall be terminated when the offensive player in
control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past the defensive player.

The part I highlighted should cover it.

Compare that to the NCAA-M rule 9-15-3. There is no similar provision in NFHS.

Art. 3. After the start of a five-second closely guarded count, in order for a
closely guarded violation to occur, there shall be continuous guarding by the same opponent.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The part I highlighted should cover it.

Interesting. Very interesting.

SECTION 4-23 GUARDING
ART. 1 Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an
offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard
and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded

Comments from other Forum members?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Let it go, it's been 15 years.

Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. (Elvis Presley)

[Welpe]

OK? What prohibits there being more than one player guarding another?

If that's not enough for you, perhaps 9.10.1 Situation B will suffice?

9.10.1 SITUATION B:

While dribbling in A's frontcourt, A1 is closely guarded by B1. After two seconds, B2 also assumes a closely-guarded position on A1 and B1 leaves to guard A2.

RULING: The closely-guarded count continues. There is no requirement for the defensive player to remain the same during the count as long as A1 is closely-guarded throughout.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The part I highlighted should cover it.

The definition of guarding is "legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent." It doesn't say that somebody else can't also be in the path.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Compare that to the NCAA-M rule 9-15-3. There is no similar provision in NFHS.

Art. 3. After the start of a five-second closely guarded count, in order for a
closely guarded violation to occur, there shall be continuous guarding by the same opponent.

So there is no provision for switching defensive assignments and continuing a five second closely guarded count in NCAA rules?

Once again, interesting. Very interesting.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Art. 3. After the start of a five-second closely guarded count, in order for a
closely guarded violation to occur, there shall be continuous guarding by the same opponent.

So there is no provision for switching defensive assignments and continuing a five second closely guarded count in NCAA rules?

Once again, interesting. Very interesting.

In HS, doesn't matter who or how many, if there is somebody in LGP within 6 feet of the ball handler wearing a different colored jersey, count goes on.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by frezer11

In HS, doesn't matter who or how many, if there is somebody in LGP within 6 feet of the ball handler wearing a different colored jersey, count goes on.

NFHS: Even with a offensive teammate in between?

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS: Even with a offensive teammate in between?

Yessir! Establishing closely guarded, as defined earlier, has no references to what the offensive player's teammates are doing, or where they are located.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Situation: A1 is holding a live ball in Team A's Front Court. A2 is facing A1 and is only two feet from A1. B1, who has been guarding A3 takes a position facing A2 two feet directly behind A2.

Question: Would you start a five second Closely Guarded Count?

MTD, Sr.