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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 12, 2015, 03:57pm
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I'd really like to know what they mean about scoring on a charge call. Did somebody think the NCAA-M rule apply?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 12, 2015, 05:09pm
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Colour My World (Chicago, 1970) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I wish the NF would just allow players to wear whatever they wish as long as it is a solid color. Who cares if they match or not.
I officiated a preseason scrimmage in which the players wore scrimmage jerseys, white for home, and red for visitors, with many players wearing multiple color undershirts underneath their jerseys. Because it was a scrimmage, we didn't enforce the undershirt color rule. Rebounding fouls, and out of bounds calls under the basket, that would usually be very easy, became a slight challenge. When you've got few big kids reaching for a rebound, some with a white jersey and a red undershirt, some with a red jersey and a white undershirt, some with a white jersey and a white undershirt, and some with a red jersey and a red undershirt, simple calls became more difficult, not a lot more difficult, but still, more difficult.

I believe that the NFHS is right to have color rules for equipment, and uniforms, but only from the waist up. I really don't care what the players are wearing from the waist down, with the only possible exceptions being a kicked ball out of a crowd, or an out of bounds call from a crowd off a player's leg, but we don't get too many of those.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 12, 2015, 09:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
"Eliminating scoring on any charge call."

Does this mean to say that no points shall be awarded on a defensive BI/GT violation that occurs prior to a player control foul?
Huh?

I take it as a pass and crash. The dribbler passing to another player but continuing through defender. The foul is charging and I agree, they should not score on the play.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 12, 2015, 09:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mregor View Post
Huh?

I take it as a pass and crash. The dribbler passing to another player but continuing through defender. The foul is charging and I agree, they should not score on the play.
That makes no sense. You couldn't possibly score on this type of play anyway. A team control foul on a pass and crash would result in the ball becoming dead immediately.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 13, 2015, 01:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
I'd really like to know what they mean about scoring on a charge call. Did somebody think the NCAA-M rule apply?
My thought...This would bring the rule closer to the NBA offensive foul call rules. Offense can't score on any offensive foul if I recall correctly
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 13, 2015, 03:03am
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Part II – Observations – Have You Seen In Your Area?

1. Illegal uniforms. No

2. Flopping. No

3. Number and uniform same color. No

4. An increase in rough play during rebounds. No

5. An increase in slapping the backboard. No

6. An increase in recording/reporting errors to the scorekeeping personnel. No

7. Correctable errors being administered incorrectly in games. No

8. Uniform code and adornment rule codes being properly enforced in games. Mostly-some guys just hate being fashion police

Part III – About Rules For 2014-15 – Would You Favor

1. Not getting a new 10 seconds after a time-out called from the backcourt or a deflection. Yes-would love this actually.

2. Eliminating scoring on any charge call. No

3. Adding specific information to the rules book for cleaning up post play. No way

4. Calling a time-out and moving the ball to the half-court line. I don't like this rule in the NBA

5. Permitting a player to have six personal fouls. No

6. Widening the lane to 16 feet/opening up post play. No

7. Changing the closely guarded to 3 feet instead of 6 feet. No - think this would slow down the game

8. Adding the defensive arc to the floor. Agree with APG - Yes, fans already think it's there

9. Providing a definition for a secondary defender. No

10. Playing the game in halves. No-these are teens-I don't mind them getting the extra break

11. Playing with a shot clock. Would love it

12. Adding a sock color restriction/regulation to the uniform rule code. OMG-No
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 14, 2015, 09:57am
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This ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
"Eliminating scoring on any charge call." Does this mean to say that no points shall be awarded on a defensive BI/GT violation that occurs prior to a player control foul?
4.19.6 SITUATION A: B1 obtains a legal position in A1’s path before A1
becomes airborne. A1 jumps and releases the ball on a try for goal. Before returning
to the floor, airborne shooter A1 charges into B1. (a) Before the foul by A1,
B2 commits basket interference; or (b) after the foul on A1, B2 slaps the ball on
its downward flight. RULING: In (a), both the violation and the foul are penalized.
The basket interference by B2 causes the ball to become dead immediately. The
violation is penalized by awarding the two points. The player-control foul on A1 is
also charged. Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in anywhere along the end
line. A defensive-goaltending or basket-interference violation committed prior to a
player-control foul does not contradict the general statement that when a playercontrol
foul occurs that player cannot score. In the case of a defensive violation, it
is the violation which results in awarding the score. In (b), the ball becomes dead
and the try ends immediately when the player-control foul on A1 occurs. The
action of B2 is ignored as goaltending cannot occur after the try has ended. The
ball is awarded to Team B for a throw-in from a designated spot out of bounds
closest to where the foul occurred. (4-12-1; 6-7-4; 6-7-9 Exception; 7-5-4a; 9-11)
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 14, 2015, 10:08am
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Yes, that is a case play that would not apply if this rule applies. Not sure why they would change this rule for such a rare situation?

Peace
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 14, 2015, 11:48am
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Inquiring Minds Want To Know ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
4.19.6 SITUATION A: B1 obtains a legal position in A1’s path before A1
becomes airborne. A1 jumps and releases the ball on a try for goal. Before returning
to the floor, airborne shooter A1 charges into B1. (a) Before the foul by A1,
B2 commits basket interference;
or (b) after the foul on A1, B2 slaps the ball on
its downward flight. RULING: In (a), both the violation and the foul are penalized.
The basket interference by B2 causes the ball to become dead immediately. The
violation is penalized by awarding the two points. The player-control foul on A1 is
also charged.
Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in anywhere along the end
line. A defensive-goaltending or basket-interference violation committed prior to a
player-control foul does not contradict the general statement that when a player control
foul occurs that player cannot score. In the case of a defensive violation, it
is the violation which results in awarding the score. In (b), the ball becomes dead
and the try ends immediately when the player-control foul on A1 occurs. The
action of B2 is ignored as goaltending cannot occur after the try has ended. The
ball is awarded to Team B for a throw-in from a designated spot out of bounds
closest to where the foul occurred. (4-12-1; 6-7-4; 6-7-9 Exception; 7-5-4a; 9-11)
If the defensive basket interference, before the foul, "causes the ball to became dead immediately", then how can one charge the player control foul? I thought that fouls during a dead ball must be intentional, or flagrant, to be charged (as technical fouls)?

What am I missing here, besides common sense?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 14, 2015, 11:50am
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Found It ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If the defensive basket interference, before the foul, "causes the ball to became dead immediately", then how can one charge the player control foul? I thought that fouls during a dead ball must be intentional, or flagrant, to be charged (as technical fouls)?

What am I missing here, besides common sense?
4-19: A foul is an infraction of the rules which is charged and is penalized.
ART. 1 A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with
an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing
normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes contact
by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.


(Hey. I've got to get my post numbers up. What's the next rank above Esteemed Forum Member? Most Exalted Forum Member?)
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 14, 2015 at 11:53am.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 15, 2015, 12:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
That makes no sense. You couldn't possibly score on this type of play anyway. A team control foul on a pass and crash would result in the ball becoming dead immediately.
You sure can. The pass goes to A2 who slams home. No more T/C. A1 crashes into B1. That's all I can see about what they mean unless it is a charge by the shooter who is no longer airborne and charges through an opponent. Same scenario basically in that basket is already made before the foul.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 15, 2015, 12:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mregor View Post
You sure can. The pass goes to A2 who slams home. No more T/C. A1 crashes into B1.
The ball would be dead, so there wouldn't even be a foul (unless intentional or flagrant).

The scenarios I can think of where there would be a charge with the basket counting are: 1) A1 takes a shot, which is still in the air when he, who is not an airborne shooter, charges into an opponent. 2) A1 passes to A2, who throws up an immediate shot and then A1 charges into a defender.

Both of these are fairly rare and I don't think necessitate a rule change.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
The ball would be dead, so there wouldn't even be a foul (unless intentional or flagrant).

The scenarios I can think of where there would be a charge with the basket counting are: 1) A1 takes a shot, which is still in the air when he, who is not an airborne shooter, charges into an opponent. 2) A1 passes to A2, who throws up an immediate shot and then A1 charges into a defender.

Both of these are fairly rare and I don't think necessitate a rule change.
Agreed. Someone considered a scenario they felt was unfair and wants a rule change for the sasquatch.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 02, 2015, 12:13pm
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NFHS questionnaire

I was also emailed the NFHS questionnaire. It came to me via MSHAA.

5. Permitting a player to have six personal fouls. I answered "yes"

Basketball is the only sport that has a limit. A football player can have 17 holding penalties in a game without disqualification. A hockey player can have 12 tripping penalties without disqualification. What makes basketball different? If we are worried about a foul fest, 1 more is not going to break the bank. In light of the hand check emphasis, we are seeing starter A1 going to the bench with 2 fouls and sitting until the start of the second half because he picked up "2 quick ones".

And then throw in the 2 Twenty minute halves possibility, there is 4 more mintes of game time. (Yes, I believe the NCAA should be 6 also)

Just curious of reasoning behind all of the "no" responses in the sticky note that Billy posted....
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 02, 2015, 12:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
I was also emailed the NFHS questionnaire. It came to me via MSHAA.

5. Permitting a player to have six personal fouls. I answered "yes"

Basketball is the only sport that has a limit. A football player can have 17 holding penalties in a game without disqualification. A hockey player can have 12 tripping penalties without disqualification. What makes basketball different? If we are worried about a foul fest, 1 more is not going to break the bank. In light of the hand check emphasis, we are seeing starter A1 going to the bench with 2 fouls and sitting until the start of the second half because he picked up "2 quick ones".

And then throw in the 2 Twenty minute halves possibility, there is 4 more mintes of game time. (Yes, I believe the NCAA should be 6 also)

Just curious of reasoning behind all of the "no" responses in the sticky note that Billy posted....
I've actually seen players using hands less in response to the hand check changes. I think adding a foul pretty much counter-acts any benefits of the rule change with regard to cleaner play.

If they add 4 minutes of game time, then I can see adding a foul.
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