Lane Violation (Video)

[ccrroo]

Both refs explained that perimeter players couldn't cross the top of the three point line until the ball hit the rim. After the game, another ref sitting in the stands said the perimeter players couldn't cross the FT line. I looked up the rule and I think it's the FT line.

Can anyone confirm? Is this a lane violation on the perimeter?

[frezer11]

It's both. Perimeter players must stay outside the three-point line, and above the free-throw line extended until the ball hits the rim. Violation in this video.

[Adam]

frezer is right.

The players must stay outside the 3 point arc, and above the free throw line extended.
In this video, both players commit a violation. If this happened along the lane line, I'd only penalize the first violation, by rule. Since it's above the arc, I'm not so sure this shouldn't be a simultaneous violation.

Penalize both, cancel the shot and move to the next shot or go to the arrow if there are no more shots to be taken.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

frezer is right.

The players must stay outside the 3 point arc, and above the free throw line extended.
In this video, both players commit a violation. If this happened along the lane line, I'd only penalize the first violation, by rule. Since it's above the arc, I'm not so sure this shouldn't be a simultaneous violation.

Penalize both, cancel the shot and move to the next shot or go to the arrow if there are no more shots to be taken.

When the first violation is by the defense and the next by the thrower or a teammate of the thrower not in a marked lane space, then both violations are penalized as if they had been simultaneous, even though they really weren't. Rule citation = 9-1 Penalty Section 4b

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

When the first violation is by the defense and the next by the thrower or a teammate of the thrower not in a marked lane space, then both violations are penalized as if they had been simultaneous even though they really weren't. Rule citation = 9-1 Penalty Section 4b

Thank you, Nevada. That's what I was remembering.

So, in the video: Wave off the FT, AP throw in.

Here's a question, though. Given the location of the violation, where do you bring the ball in. End line or side line?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

Thank you, Nevada. That's what I was remembering.

So, in the video: Wave off the FT, AP throw in.

Here's a question, though. Given the location of the violation, where do you bring the ball in. End line or side line?

I would probably go sideline, but not married to it 100%. Could be persuaded.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I would probably go sideline, but not married to it 100%. Could be persuaded.

Endline, as violation took place on the basket side of the FT circle.

[Nevadaref]

Definitely on the sideline. The red player is in first and his step is clearly outside the FT semicircle. White then enters and he too is wide of the semicircle.

The real question is what to do if one is inside and one violator is outside or the first is a defender in a marked lane space and the second is a player outside the 3pt area and the "rocket ship". I believe that I have a good answer, but have never seen it detailed anywhere.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Definitely on the sideline. The red player is in first and his step is clearly outside the FT semicircle. White then enters and he too is wide of the semicircle.

The real question is what to do if one is inside and one violator is outside or the first is a defender in a marked lane space and the second is a player outside the 3pt area and the "rocket ship". I believe that I have a good answer, but have never seen it detailed anywhere.

Correct on the location....it is certainly the sideline.

The location of the throw for simultaneous violations is determined by which team has the arrow. The spot will be at the spot nearest the violation committed by the team without the arrow.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

the "rocket ship".

Rocket Ship Diagram © 2009, Back In The Saddle

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correct on the location....it is certainly the sideline.

The location of the throw for simultaneous violations is determined by which team has the arrow. The spot will be at the spot nearest the violation committed by the team without the arrow.

Correct -- there's a case play or interp (possibly dealing with fouls) on this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Penalty 4d

If a fake by an opponent causes the free thrower or a teammate of the free thrower to violate, only the fake is penalized.

Interesting, if the defender merely fakes in this video, then we would only penalize his actions. However, if the defender goes ahead and violates and the free thrower's teammate goes in, too, then it's a double violation.

That seems odd to me, precisely because of the situation in the video.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The location of the throw for simultaneous violations is determined by which team has the arrow. The spot will be at the spot nearest the violation committed by the team without the arrow.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Correct -- there's a case play or interp (possibly dealing with fouls) on this.

Anyone know where to find this interpretation/caseplay? I'm not sure I ever remember reading this one.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Anyone know where to find this interpretation/caseplay? I'm not sure I ever remember reading this one.

The quickest one I can find is from 2002 (I think), so the end-ruling has changed (It's POI, not AP), but the concept exists:

SITUATION 12: B1 fouls A1 near the division line. At approximately the same time, A2 fouls B2 in the lane near Team A's basket. The alternating-possession arrow is pointed toward Team A. RULING: This is a simultaneous personal foul. B1 and A2 are charged with personal fouls. The ball shall be put back in play with an alternating-possession throw-in for Team A on the sideline nearest B1's foul. COMMENT: Since the fouls occurred at two different locations on the floor, the spot for the throw-in is determined by the foul of the team not entitled to the alternating-possession throw-in. Example: Team A has the arrow; throw-in administered at the spot closest to Team B's foul. (4-19-9; 6-3-3g)

[referee99]