Intentionally Leaving The Court. Violation?

[Knights_Coach]

We had a game 1/26/15, it went like this:

During the 4th quarter, Team A's(them) player fouled out and this also put Team B(us) at the free throw line. Well, Player A gets so mad he leaves the bench area and playing court headed to toward their locker room. The referee spotted the occurrence, didn't allow us to shoot the free throws & told Team A's coach, & the other 2 refs he had to come back. Mind you Team A(us) is waiting to shoot free throws. The referees waited for him to return to the bench all while we waited over 1 minute. Team A never received a technical. I argued my point, tried to get a referee to come to me but was ignored. Never got an explanation.

NFHS 2014-15 Rule 10: Fouls & Penalties Section 5: Head Coach Rules, Article 5 states: The Head Coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.
PENALTY: (Section 5) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is directly charged to the head coach.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Knights_Coach

We had a game 1/26/15, it went like this:

During the 4th quarter, Team A's(them) player fouled out and this also put Team B(us) at the free throw line. Well, Player A gets so mad he leaves the bench area and playing court headed to toward their locker room. The referee spotted the occurrence, didn't allow us to shoot the free throws & told Team A's coach, & the other 2 refs he had to come back. Mind you Team A(us) is waiting to shoot free throws. The referees waited for him to return to the bench all while we waited over 1 minute. Team A never received a technical. I argued my point, tried to get a referee to come to me but was ignored. Never got an explanation.

NFHS 2014-15 Rule 10: Fouls & Penalties Section 5: Head Coach Rules, Article 5 states: The Head Coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.
PENALTY: (Section 5) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is directly charged to the head coach.

What level do you coach at, you seem to have problems in a lot of your games

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by johnny d

What level do you coach at, you seem to have problems in a lot of your games

That's kind of rude and uncalled for. He doesn't critique your officiating discussions, does he?

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

That's kind of rude and uncalled for. He doesn't critique your officiating discussions, does he?

I thought his point was more about ref level than the coach . . . different realistic expectations for HS V refs and MS refs . . .

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

I thought his point was more about ref level than the coach . . . different realistic expectations for HS V refs and MS refs . . .

I understand...you're probably right but the original poster has a total of 2 posts. How do you think he's going to interpret the comment?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

That's kind of rude and uncalled for. He doesn't critique your officiating discussions, does he?

Not meant to be rude at all. If he is coaching jr. high or lower, he would most likely have newer officials on his game learning how to officiate. In that case, I would suggest he ease up a little and realize that just like his players, his officials are still learning and are more prone to make mistakes.

If you are offended by a simple question like the one I posed to coach, I would suggest that you need some thicker skin. In case you couldn't figure it out, that statement was purposefully rude.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by johnny d

...If you are offended by a simple question like the one I posed to coach, I would suggest that you need some thicker skin. In case you couldn't figure it out, that statement was purposefully rude.

Not offended at all...and my skin is plenty thick. Just don't like to see new members scared off by poor manners. I understood where you were coming from but if you read you're response in a literal sense, it's kind of insulting.

And instead of implying I can't figure something out, you might work on your written communication skills.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

That's kind of rude and uncalled for. He doesn't critique your officiating discussions, does he?

TF on Bad Zebra. He wasn't rude at all. He was empathizing.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Knights_Coach

We had a game 1/26/15, it went like this:

During the 4th quarter, Team A's(them) player fouled out and this also put Team B(us) at the free throw line. Well, Player A gets so mad he leaves the bench area and playing court headed to toward their locker room. The referee spotted the occurrence, didn't allow us to shoot the free throws & told Team A's coach, & the other 2 refs he had to come back. Mind you Team A(us) is waiting to shoot free throws. The referees waited for him to return to the bench all while we waited over 1 minute. Team A never received a technical. I argued my point, tried to get a referee to come to me but was ignored. Never got an explanation.

NFHS 2014-15 Rule 10: Fouls & Penalties Section 5: Head Coach Rules, Article 5 states: The Head Coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.
PENALTY: (Section 5) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is directly charged to the head coach.

That rule was put in to address the entire team leaving at the end of a half when the other team had FTs still to shoot.

In general, I think the officials got this one right.

[APG]

If I had that coach's scenario happen in my game, I think I would go the route of reminding him that if he's going to allow his player to leave the playing area, that he needs to be accompanied by adult personnel.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That rule was put in to address the entire team leaving at the end of a half when the other team had FTs still to shoot.

In general, I think the officials got this one right.

An example which the NFHS gave when first publishing the rule was a team member leaving the bench and going up into the stands to confront a spectator.
Technical foul charged to the head coach was the ruling.

[Knights_Coach]

Hey guys, no harm here. I've coach middle school basketball and this is my 8th year. I was only asking, because it's a rule in the NFHS Rule Book. This is the first time this happened.

Not to sound smart, but I didn't know refs could pick and choose which rules to enforce or whether if it was up for interpretation or not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Knights_Coach

Hey guys, no harm here. I've coach middle school basketball and this is my 8th year. I was only asking, because it's a rule in the NFHS Rule Book. This is the first time this happened.

Not to sound smart, but I didn't know refs could pick and choose which rules to enforce or whether if it was up for interpretation or not.

It's not about picking and choosing, it's about knowing what the rule was meant to address and applying the rule accordingly.

Personally, if a coach sends a player to the locker room, I'm going to simply remind him, "Coach, just a reminder that he needs to have an adult with him." I'm not going to call him back, and if he does return, I'm not holding the game up while he comes back.

And feel lucky the refs weren't being that literal with the rules, or they would have given you a technical foul for trying to influence an official's decision.

[Knights_Coach]

Thanks Adam for your quick reply but, the coach never sent him to the locker room. He was so upset that he fouled out. They were the #1 team with a record of 11-1, we were the #8 team w/ a record of 1-11. It was the 4th quarter, he fouled out, he was upset. They were losing.

I wasn't trying to influence the call. I was looking at my player getting ready to shoot his FTs. Never looked to the other bench. The ref blew the whistle, ordered the young man back, and held the ball. I didn't go, "oooohh, he left the floor/bench." Had the ref never had blew the whistle and ordered him back. Probably, no one would have known.

I'm sorry if I sound full of emotion. You have got to understand, we lost in OT by 1, this happened minutes before the OT. 2 FTs and a possession is worth more than gold at that time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Knights_Coach

Thanks Adam for your quick reply but, the coach never sent him to the locker room. He was so upset that he fouled out. They were the #1 team with a record of 11-1, we were the #8 team w/ a record of 1-11. It was the 4th quarter, he fouled out, he was upset. They were losing.

I wasn't trying to influence the call. I was looking at my player getting ready to shoot his FTs. Never looked to the other bench. The ref blew the whistle, ordered the young man back, and held the ball. I didn't go, "oooohh, he left the floor/bench." Had the ref never had blew the whistle and ordered him back. Probably, no one would have known.

I'm sorry if I sound full of emotion. You have got to understand, we lost in OT by 1, this happened minutes before the OT. 2 FTs and a possession is worth more than gold at that time.

I get why you're upset, but other than the delay, what advantage was gained? The rules aren't put in place to trip up a team who forgets proper protocol, they're for safety, to prevent an undue advantage, and to promote sportsmanship.

In your situation, I'm likely to simply tell the coach that his kid needs to be supervised per NFHS rules. Then, we're going to shoot your free throws.

The rule that says a kid who leaves the court has to be supervised is the one that's at play here, and there's no penalty for noncompliance (at least not during the game). The technical foul was not written for this scenario.