Advice Needed

[SAK]

Seeking advice.

We have a new official who is working wreck games, "competitive ymca" basketball. He is a former college player who insists what he knows to be correct. A few situations have arisen in the last few times I have called games with him. Not to say that one of us is better than the other but coaches have made comments, many coaches in fact.

First this official is extremely intense. He makes his calls and does not seem to care if he got it correct as long as he thinks he looks good making the call (he does not look good making the call). His floor positioning is bad at best, many times he is still on the court as the lead rather than 3 feet or more off the end line, he bends down to see give direction.

Partner makes numerous three second violation calls when there is a shot in flight or on a rebound. Gave a T in a 4th grade game, with a running clock, under tens seconds he requested the ball and the player didn't give it to him fast enough. He said that the player was holding the ball to purposefully keep the clock play from happening. Not only that he would not discuss the play, he said that he would do the same thing every time. I have a hard time believing that in a 4th grade game a kid would do that with intent.

On a previous day, the official made a point of saying that he was not going to listen to any advice because he did a DI scrimmage once and they told him how good he was. Meanwhile the varsity officials who observe him all have a lot to say but he does not listen.

Finally, until I think of more, he calls everything on ball--ie never looks off ball regardless of location of the ball in his primary or not. He does not care if he can see the ball or not, makes the call anyway. He has been unapproachable by coaches and other officials.

What can I do as I prefer not to work with this individual as it is having a negative impact on my attitude during the games and my call selection as I am required to look off ball all game and call well outside of my primary. He is hard to work with. I don't know if it is the right thing to do to call the assigner or not. How can I work with him and get what I need.

Originally Posted by SAK

Seeking advice.

We have a new official who is working wreck games, "competitive ymca" basketball. He is a former college player who insists what he knows to be correct. A few situations have arisen in the last few times I have called games with him. Not to say that one of us is better than the other but coaches have made comments, many coaches in fact.

First this official is extremely intense. He makes his calls and does not seem to care if he got it correct as long as he thinks he looks good making the call (he does not look good making the call). His floor positioning is bad at best, many times he is still on the court as the lead rather than 3 feet or more off the end line, he bends down to see give direction.

Partner makes numerous three second violation calls when there is a shot in flight or on a rebound. Gave a T in a 4th grade game, with a running clock, under tens seconds he requested the ball and the player didn't give it to him fast enough. He said that the player was holding the ball to purposefully keep the clock play from happening. Not only that he would not discuss the play, he said that he would do the same thing every time. I have a hard time believing that in a 4th grade game a kid would do that with intent.

On a previous day, the official made a point of saying that he was not going to listen to any advice because he did a DI scrimmage once and they told him how good he was. Meanwhile the varsity officials who observe him all have a lot to say but he does not listen.

Finally, until I think of more, he calls everything on ball--ie never looks off ball regardless of location of the ball in his primary or not. He does not care if he can see the ball or not, makes the call anyway. He has been unapproachable by coaches and other officials.

What can I do as I prefer not to work with this individual as it is having a negative impact on my attitude during the games and my call selection as I am required to look off ball all game and call well outside of my primary. He is hard to work with. I don't know if it is the right thing to do to call the assigner or not. How can I work with him and get what I need.

Don't work with the guy. Block him in your assigning software and/or call the assignor and say you don't want to work with him. I'd wager it's probably not the first time the assignor has heard that.

[twocentsworth]

Question for you: If you do not share your concerns with your assignor, how will he ever know that there is a problem? (Remember, you "promote what you permit".)

[Adam]

Talk to your assigner for those games. If you don't have the option of blocking him, you have two choices:
1. Quit doing those games.
2. Get in, get done, get out.

[rockyroad]

SAK, you don't have a whole lot of options. Try to talk to him one-on-one and explain court coverage to him. If he blows you off again, then smile and tell him to have a great day - and then call your assignor and explain why you never want to work with the guy again.

Que sera, sera.

[JRutledge]

Every official has to ask themselves, "Why am I here?" And you need to ask the same basic question of the people you work with and work around in these situations. Honestly, I would stop working those games because this guy is obviously allowed to do what he is doing because it fills a space or body and it is probably one of the main places he can work. I guess you could tell the assignor, but not sure I would care. I would just stop taking those games (but that is me). I often will not take games at any level if I am not happy with my partners or the type of officials I am assigned to work with. I do not need the aggravation.

Peace

[jTheUmp]

"competitive YMCA" + 4th grade games = I wouldn't be surprised if the assigner either didn't care, or couldn't do anything about it due to lack of other options.

I'm guessing you're pretty new yourself... if that's the case, then I suggest you just file this guy away in your memory bank as an example of what not to do; since he's shown that he doesn't care to take any coaching or criticism there's not point in banging your head against the wall.

If you're a veteran, you might try reading him the riot act. Or if you work High school ball, you might try the the whole "you think you might want to move up the ladder? Yes? Well, before you do that, there are some things you should know..." routine.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

"competitive YMCA" + 4th grade games = I wouldn't be surprised if the assigner either didn't care, or couldn't do anything about it due to lack of other options.

Most likely true, but if this person makes the original poster uncomfortable on the court or ruins the enjoyment of officiating the games for him, then he needs to tell the assignor that and instruct him not to put him with this guy in the future. Otherwise, he will just be miserable.

[Rich]

This reminds me why I'm so glad I live in an area without a central assigner. Where I used to live, we were forced to work our share of this stuff or he'd threaten our HS schedule.

Now I can avoid it entirely.

[SC Official]

Thankfully, in the great state of South Carolina, we can block partners in Arbiter. Unfortunately, we only get so many blocks, and we can't see our partner(s) until after we accept an assignment. And if we decline an assignment or turn it back after accepting, we lose rating points.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by SAK

Seeking advice.

We have a new official who is working wreck games, "competitive ymca" basketball. He is a former college player who insists what he knows to be correct. A few situations have arisen in the last few times I have called games with him. Not to say that one of us is better than the other but coaches have made comments, many coaches in fact.

*First of all, I need you to immediately STOP discounting your obvious superior expertise as compared to this obstinate ref partner, when the thesis of your post is to compare & contrast your reffing acumen.

First this official is extremely intense. He makes his calls and does not seem to care if he got it correct as long as he thinks he looks good making the call (he does not look good making the call). His floor positioning is bad at best, many times he is still on the court as the lead rather than 3 feet or more off the end line, he bends down to see give direction.

* A toxic combination of poor, untrained mechanics and bad judgment is apprant.
Partner makes numerous three second violation calls when there is a shot in flight or on a rebound. Gave a T in a 4th grade game, with a running clock, under tens seconds he requested the ball and the player didn't give it to him fast enough. He said that the player was holding the ball to purposefully keep the clock play from happening. Not only that he would not discuss the play, he said that he would do the same thing every time. I have a hard time believing that in a 4th grade game a kid would do that with intent.

On a previous day, the official made a point of saying that he was not going to listen to any advice because he did a DI scrimmage once and they told him how good he was. Meanwhile the varsity officials who observe him all have a lot to say but he does not listen.

*Others have seen the same so you should feel fine that you are not being biased.

Finally, until I think of more, he calls everything on ball--ie never looks off ball regardless of location of the ball in his primary or not. He does not care if he can see the ball or not, makes the call anyway. He has been unapproachable by coaches and other officials.

What can I do as I prefer not to work with this individual as it is having a negative impact on my attitude during the games and my call selection as I am required to look off ball all game and call well outside of my primary. He is hard to work with. I don't know if it is the right thing to do to call the assigner or not. How can I work with him and get what I need.

*Solution to your problem: YOu need to publicly change, remand the improper calls he makes when they are outside of his PCA primary coverage area. Do this in clear public view and audition of the coaches, players, and fans. Believe me, the coaches will KNOW who is making the right calls and who is doing it incorrectly. Do NOT rely on the Ymca assignor to solve your own problems--they care, but are also not willing to cause conflict. This is a common encountered problem that all refs inevitably face--the obstinate partner. His being a former player in colleg has nothing to do with reffing expertise--be it a walk on at Sisters of Mercy college or all america and Kansas.

[griblets]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Do this in clear public view and audition of the coaches, players, and fans.

I couldn't disagree more. Behaving in a non-professional manner like this will only hurt your reputation, not to mention that it is a bad example to display in front of the youth.

First, if your goal is to help the guy, talk to him, focusing less on his officiating and more on his ability to receive constructive criticism. Based on your description, he is likely to reject your input. At that point, you've done all you can to help him, so save your advice for someone that wants to hear it.

Second, talk to your assignor. Let him know your experience with this official. If the assignor doesn't know there's a problem, he doesn't have an opportunity to fix it.

Finally, simply reject the assignments.

Good luck.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by SAK

Seeking advice...

How do you resolve your other issues in life? Apply the same mechanics here.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by griblets

I couldn't disagree more. Behaving in a non-professional manner like this will only hurt your reputation, not to mention that it is a bad example to display in front of the youth.

*In life there are certain "teachable moments" for us all. In the case of this Poster, it has nothing to do with reputation, but rather "respect" for doing what is right--i.e., most effective in solving the problem.

First, if your goal is to help the guy, talk to him, focusing less on his officiating and more on his ability to receive constructive criticism. Based on your description, he is likely to reject your input. At that point, you've done all you can to help him, so save your advice for someone that wants to hear it.

*Excuse me, but did you not read and comprehend the what the Poster wrote? He has already tried the "counseling/constructive criticism" approach which was proven to be ineffectual. You furthermore state that "you've done all you can do to help him...". NO you have not done all you can do--what you need to do is to call him out. Kids care about what is right not what looks "kosher".

Second, talk to your assignor. Let him know your experience with this official. If the assignor doesn't know there's a problem, he doesn't have an opportunity to fix it.

*Talking to the assigner at a Ymca youth league does nothing but attempt a vain effort to "transfer" your problem to someone else. In this case, a more direct approach is called for.

Finally, simply reject the assignments.
*This is the Absolute Worst thing you could ever want to do. Why should this man be surrendering a chance to make money just because he's partnered with an obsinate ref? In other words--why does the jerk's problem have to interfere with his own well-being and satisfication in Life? I hope this is not how you deal with problems in your own life.

Good luck.

*In life there are certain "teachable moments" for us all. In the case of this Poster, it has nothing to do with reputation, but rather "respect" for doing what is right--i.e., most effective in solving the problem.

*This is the Absolute Worst thing you could ever want to do. Why should this man be surrendering a chance to make money just because he's partnered with an obsinate ref? In other words--why does the jerk's problem have to interfere with his own well-being and satisfication in Life? I hope this is not how you deal with problems in your own life.

*And finally, don't wish this man "good luck" as you are signing off of your post---"good luck" has nothing at all to do with solving the problem. What you should be saying is encouraging him to have and practice "good courage".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

*In life there are certain "teachable moments" for us all. In the case of this Poster, it has nothing to do with reputation, but rather "respect" for doing what is right--i.e., most effective in solving the problem.

*This is the Absolute Worst thing you could ever want to do. Why should this man be surrendering a chance to make money just because he's partnered with an obsinate ref? In other words--why does the jerk's problem have to interfere with his own well-being and satisfication in Life? I hope this is not how you deal with problems in your own life.

*And finally, don't wish this man "good luck" as you are signing off of your post---"good luck" has nothing at all to do with solving the problem. What you should be saying is encouraging him to have and practice "good courage".

You're kidding, right?