The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 17, 2015, 07:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,280
Personal T ot Team T

Last night I had a delay of game warning on player for coming across the line during a throwin. Later the same girl broke the plane and was assessed a T.

We made this a team T because the T chart shows an administrative T after a team has received a delay of game. The rules also state that a personal T is assessed for repeated violations of the throw-in rule. I did not jump into the case book but now wonder what the correct call was...
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 17, 2015, 07:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,902
Breaking the boundary plane during a throw-in without contacting the thrower or the ball in the thrower's hands is one of the four delay of game warnings.
The second time that a team does one of these four acts a TEAM technical foul is charged.

Imagine if the first act was a boundary plane infraction and the second was for water on the court following a TO. Obviously no way to penalize an individual player in such a situation. Hope that clarifies it for you.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 17, 2015, 08:57pm
Official Fiveum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eurasia - no, Myasia
Posts: 302
Question

What, if anything, would be different in the call if she reached across and hit the ball on the second reach across the line?
__________________
I don't know what "signature" means.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 17, 2015, 10:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Refner View Post
What, if anything, would be different in the call if she reached across and hit the ball on the second reach across the line?
In that case, the T is charged to the player. Makes no difference if a warning was previously issued or not.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 17, 2015, 10:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Breaking the boundary plane during a throw-in without contacting the thrower or the ball in the thrower's hands is one of the four delay of game warnings.
The second time that a team does one of these four acts a TEAM technical foul is charged.

Imagine if the first act was a boundary plane infraction and the second was for water on the court following a TO. Obviously no way to penalize an individual player in such a situation. Hope that clarifies it for you.
I agree 100 percent. That was our rationale. The confusion is that 10-3-5d lists repeated violations of the throw-in under delay of game as a player T...
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 17, 2015, 11:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 1,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin green View Post
I agree 100 percent. That was our rationale. The confusion is that 10-3-5d lists repeated violations of the throw-in under delay of game as a player T...
10-3-5d refers to 9-2-10

9-2-10

ART. 10

The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

NOTE: The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she does not touch the inbounds area or a player inbounds before the ball is released on the throw-in pass. The opponent in this situation may legally touch or grasp the ball.

PENALTIES: (Art. 10)

1. The first violation of the throw-in boundary-line plane by an opponent(s) of the thrower shall result in a team warning for delay being given (one delay warning per team per game). The warning does not result in the loss of the opportunity to move along the end line when and if applicable.

2. The second or additional violations will result in a technical foul assessed to the offending team. See 10-1-5c Penalty.

3. If an opponent(s) of the thrower reaches through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touches or dislodges the ball while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line (as in 7-5-7), a technical foul shall be charged to the offender. No warning for delay required. See 10-3-10 Penalty.

4. If an opponent(s) of the thrower reaches through the throw-in boundary-line plane and fouls the thrower, an intentional personal foul shall be charged to the offender. No warning for delay required.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 12:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,280
Thanks I missed the penalty section
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 01:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Breaking the boundary plane during a throw-in without contacting the thrower or the ball in the thrower's hands is one of the four delay of game warnings.
The second time that a team does one of these four acts a TEAM technical foul is charged.

Imagine if the first act was a boundary plane infraction and the second was for water on the court following a TO. Obviously no way to penalize an individual player in such a situation. Hope that clarifies it for you.
The repeated boundary violation technical is contained in the team technical area and again in the PLAYER technical area. says player gets a T for repeted violations of boundary plane etc. If A1 breaks the plane and team is warned, then A2 does it. it is a team technical not a player technical. however, if the first plane violation was by A1 and then A1 did it again later in game he would be charged with a T (player). the player gets the T if he does it repeatedly. the team gets it if different players do it.

i read it this way because repeated violations of plane is listed in Player technical area as well as team area. if it was never charged to a player it wouldnt be there and say it. thx
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 01:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
The repeated boundary violation technical is contained in the team technical area and again in the PLAYER technical area. says player gets a T for repeted violations of boundary plane etc. If A1 breaks the plane and team is warned, then A2 does it. it is a team technical not a player technical. however, if the first plane violation was by A1 and then A1 did it again later in game he would be charged with a T (player). the player gets the T if he does it repeatedly. the team gets it if different players do it.

i read it this way because repeated violations of plane is listed in Player technical area as well as team area. if it was never charged to a player it wouldnt be there and say it. thx
Sort of, but not quite correct.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 01:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Sort of, but not quite correct.
yeah, actually under player technical it says it is a player technical if A1 has repeated violations of boundary plane. in team technical section it says it is a team technical if player breaks plane after any team warning for delay.

if A1 breaks plane and is responsible for the warning and then does it again later--repeated violation of boundary plane, he gets a player T. it is listed right along with slapping backboard, unsportsmanlike etc. all individual acts. thx
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 03:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
The repeated boundary violation technical is contained in the team technical area and again in the PLAYER technical area. says player gets a T for repeted violations of boundary plane etc. If A1 breaks the plane and team is warned, then A2 does it. it is a team technical not a player technical. however, if the first plane violation was by A1 and then A1 did it again later in game he would be charged with a T (player). the player gets the T if he does it repeatedly. the team gets it if different players do it.

i read it this way because repeated violations of plane is listed in Player technical area as well as team area. if it was never charged to a player it wouldnt be there and say it. thx
That isn't what is meant by that rule. DOG warnings don't include reporting it against a players. As such, there is no way technically hold a player responsible for a DOG warning given 2 quarters back.

What this rule intends to address is a player who keeps crossing the throwin line, likely deliberately, over and over on back-to-back throwins, making a mockery of the game.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 03:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 782
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
yeah, actually under player technical it says it is a player technical if A1 has repeated violations of boundary plane. in team technical section it says it is a team technical if player breaks plane after any team warning for delay.

if A1 breaks plane and is responsible for the warning and then does it again later--repeated violation of boundary plane, he gets a player T. it is listed right along with slapping backboard, unsportsmanlike etc. all individual acts. thx
So, how do you keep track of which player committed the first infraction, that at the time, was considered worthy of a "team warning"?
__________________
To be good at a sport, one must be smart enough to play the game -- and dumb enough to think that it's important . . .
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 10:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
That isn't what is meant by that rule. DOG warnings don't include reporting it against a players. As such, there is no way technically hold a player responsible for a DOG warning given 2 quarters back.

What this rule intends to address is a player who keeps crossing the throwin line, likely deliberately, over and over on back-to-back throwins, making a mockery of the game.
i'm just reading a player technical rule. it says repeated violations of boundary plane = player technical. when i see that--that tells me i need to be aware which player violates the plane when it happens. because if he repeats it, their rule says player technical. it just so happens that the first time it is done it is considered a team warning for delay. there isnt any time limitation or back to back wording in the player technical area. (mockery etc)

again, im just reading the rule. if i saw an interp or case play i could infer nfhs intent etc differently. right now i see repeated violations by a player = T. let me know if there is an interp.thx
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 11:32am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
i'm just reading a player technical rule. it says repeated violations of boundary plane = player technical. when i see that--that tells me i need to be aware which player violates the plane when it happens. because if he repeats it, their rule says player technical. it just so happens that the first time it is done it is considered a team warning for delay. there isnt any time limitation or back to back wording in the player technical area. (mockery etc)

again, im just reading the rule. if i saw an interp or case play i could infer nfhs intent etc differently. right now i see repeated violations by a player = T. let me know if there is an interp.thx
Two isn't enough to consider it "repeated" here. We never record the number of the player who causes the first warning, so there's no way to track this. I would advise you against doing it the way you suggest.

Most of us will go our entire career without having to enforce this particular rule.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 12:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Two isn't enough to consider it "repeated" here. We never record the number of the player who causes the first warning, so there's no way to track this. I would advise you against doing it the way you suggest.

Most of us will go our entire career without having to enforce this particular rule.
i've never enforced the rule. being the rocket scientist i am, i decided to look in the case book. exact play is in case book 10.1.5 E situation A. B1 does it early and again late. they say only a team tech….sharp as a marble on that one...
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When it gets personal! Stripes33 Softball 13 Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:59pm
2 Technicals on Team A... How many shots for Team B? bradfordwilkins Basketball 8 Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:29am
Personal to Rut Mark Padgett Basketball 4 Mon Apr 19, 2004 04:17pm
Up Close and Personal.... rainmaker Basketball 7 Thu May 31, 2001 11:05am
hey ref -you're too personal rocky Basketball 12 Thu Feb 01, 2001 09:53pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1