TO request when you have no timeouts

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

I suspect that folks do that as a habit to make sure they are in fact aware when the team gets down to one.

Why do you need to be aware when a team gets down to one?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

so if you grant them a TO, is it a 30 or full?

I've never had this, I've just thought it would have been a semi-TO, by that I mean the coach calls his plays over while things are sorted out with the FT shooting.

The team is granted a full TO. The excess TO rule predates the 30-second TO; and team is only allowed two 30-second TO per game. Remember, when a game goes into OT each team has one full TO added to its total of remaining TOs. Also, if a team is granted an excess TO during regulation, it still receives a full TO in OT.

MTD, Sr.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Why do you need to be aware when a team gets down to one?

Becase I had a brain freeze . . . reallly meant when a team got down to zero.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Becase I had a brain freeze . . . reallly meant when a team got down to zero.

Gotcha.

But the info is of no use to me until a team gets to zero so I see no value in keeping track. As I stated its useful to know they only have one kind of TO left so I don't need the ask the HC which one he wants. But I don't care if they have anything other than zero and don't remember when people tell me the number anyway.

Plus I've seen scorers communicating incorrect info in terms of the number of TOs and then had officials communicate that same inaccurate info to coaches. One could say that you want to know in case there is a dispute between the bench and the book. But that is why I ask scorers before the game to indicate the time in the quarter when the TO was granted. And that's why coaches have assistants so they can keep track of their TOs and confirm with the official scorer.

I see absolutely no upside in knowing or providing the number of timeouts a team has until they have zero at which point we are, by rule, to inform the HC.

[NoFussRef]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Gotcha.

I see absolutely no upside in knowing or providing the number of timeouts a team has until they have zero at which point we are, by rule, to inform the HC.

Correct, by rule, we are to inform the HC but if one of these brain-farts happens and we do NOT inform them, do you still penalize excessive TOs business as usual? Taking your lumps later?

What say you?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Correct, by rule, we are to inform the HC but if one of these brain-farts happens and we do NOT inform them, do you still penalize excessive TOs business as usual? Taking your lumps later?

What say you?

Of course we do.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Correct, by rule, we are to inform the HC but if one of these brain-farts happens and we do NOT inform them, do you still penalize excessive TOs business as usual? Taking your lumps later?

What say you?

Ignoring/forgetting/kicking one rule (not notifying a coach after his last TO) does not give us permission to willfully ignore another rule (T for an excessive timeout).

Don't compound one mistake with another mistake.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

For me, it depends on the situation. If it's a half hearted attempt to call a timeout I may ignore the first request but if its repeated and/or adamant then you really have no choice but to grant it.

I agree with this, if there is a deadball, and I'm right next to the coach and he asks for a timeout, obvlivious to the fact that he's out, and I know he has zero? I'm at least going to say, "You know you're, out, right?" or something to that effect.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I see absolutely no upside in knowing or providing the number of timeouts a team has until they have zero at which point we are, by rule, to inform the HC.

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Coach, you have one timeout left", is a courtesy often extended by officials to coaches, when, by rule, officials should only be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout. If there is any miscommunication, or mistake, involving the table crew reporting remaining timeouts, then the officials, by rule, need to stay out of the conversation. Let the coaches, and table crew, communicate about remaining timeouts, other than when a team has been granted its final allowable timeout, which by rule, is required to be reported to the coach by the officials.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

By rule we are to notify the HC when the team has used its final allowable timeout but otherwise I agree.

I work games with people that during timeouts or other deal ball situations say, "Team A has 2 fulls and a 30 and B has blah blah blah...."

I say thats nice but I only care when they have zero. It is helpful to know when both 30s have been used so you can automatically award a full but otherwise I only want to know when they are done.

I know how many of each teams have left. When they only have one kind left it saves a step.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Coach, you have one timeout left", is a courtesy often extended by officials to coaches, when, by rule, officials should only be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout. If there is any miscommunication, or mistake, involving the table crew reporting remaining timeouts, then the officials, by rule, need to stay out of the conversation. Let the coaches, and table crew, communicate about remaining timeouts, other than when a team has been granted its final allowable timeout, which by rule, is required to be reported to the coach by the officials.

What rule would that be? There is a rule that they must tell coaches when they are out, but what rule prevents them from being involved otherwise?

[BoomerSooner]

Just because I haven't seen it posted yet, by rule 5-11-6, we shall grant requested time outs even if in excess of the allotted number of time outs (assuming the situation allows for the granting of a timeout, i.e. not in possession, prior to the replacement of a disqualified player, etc).

I was trained that it isn't our place to prevent the mistake of requesting a time out in excess of the allotted number beyond the specified duty of notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final time out. I was trained that because the rule doesn't specify which team's head coach is to be notified that both head coaches should be notified when a team uses its final time out. (2-7-11: Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out".

To SCL's question, there isn't a rule that prohibits an official from communicating this information other than the rule of KISS. I don't want to be the guy that mistakenly tells a coach he has X number of time outs remaining only to find out that it was actually X-1 and have him go nuts when he finds out the correct information, especially if it were to be at the expense of a technical foul.

For the record, my procedure when one team uses its final time out is to notify the coach that is out of time outs then notify the other coach that the opposing team is out of time outs. I do not provide any information concerning number of time outs for the team that didn't just use its final time out. That is for the coach and table to track.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Correct, by rule, we are to inform the HC but if one of these brain-farts happens and we do NOT inform them, do you still penalize excessive TOs business as usual? Taking your lumps later?

What say you?

Yes. Rarely have I told a coach he was out and didn't know. It's up to him to track that.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

What rule would that be?

The rule that says that officials should be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The rule that says that officials should be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout.

The simplicity of the verbiage used in 5-7-11 - "The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This includes: . . . Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out." - does not imply nor expressly preclude any other action, such as the courtesy of informing a team regarding the time-outs still available, at a point in the game before a team has used its last time-out.

There are many actions taken by game officials which are not expressly dictated in the rules. And, many times, here on this forum, the statement has been used, "If it isn't illegal, it must be legal." - or other similar phrases.