TO request when you have no timeouts

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

I suspect that folks do that as a habit to make sure they are in fact aware when the team gets down to one.

Why do you need to be aware when a team gets down to one?

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Why do you need to be aware when a team gets down to one?

Becase I had a brain freeze . . . reallly meant when a team got down to zero.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Becase I had a brain freeze . . . reallly meant when a team got down to zero.

Gotcha.

But the info is of no use to me until a team gets to zero so I see no value in keeping track. As I stated its useful to know they only have one kind of TO left so I don't need the ask the HC which one he wants. But I don't care if they have anything other than zero and don't remember when people tell me the number anyway.

Plus I've seen scorers communicating incorrect info in terms of the number of TOs and then had officials communicate that same inaccurate info to coaches. One could say that you want to know in case there is a dispute between the bench and the book. But that is why I ask scorers before the game to indicate the time in the quarter when the TO was granted. And that's why coaches have assistants so they can keep track of their TOs and confirm with the official scorer.

I see absolutely no upside in knowing or providing the number of timeouts a team has until they have zero at which point we are, by rule, to inform the HC.

[NoFussRef]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Gotcha.

I see absolutely no upside in knowing or providing the number of timeouts a team has until they have zero at which point we are, by rule, to inform the HC.

Correct, by rule, we are to inform the HC but if one of these brain-farts happens and we do NOT inform them, do you still penalize excessive TOs business as usual? Taking your lumps later?

What say you?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Correct, by rule, we are to inform the HC but if one of these brain-farts happens and we do NOT inform them, do you still penalize excessive TOs business as usual? Taking your lumps later?

What say you?

Of course we do.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Correct, by rule, we are to inform the HC but if one of these brain-farts happens and we do NOT inform them, do you still penalize excessive TOs business as usual? Taking your lumps later?

What say you?

Ignoring/forgetting/kicking one rule (not notifying a coach after his last TO) does not give us permission to willfully ignore another rule (T for an excessive timeout).

Don't compound one mistake with another mistake.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Correct, by rule, we are to inform the HC but if one of these brain-farts happens and we do NOT inform them, do you still penalize excessive TOs business as usual? Taking your lumps later?

What say you?

Yes. Rarely have I told a coach he was out and didn't know. It's up to him to track that.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I see absolutely no upside in knowing or providing the number of timeouts a team has until they have zero at which point we are, by rule, to inform the HC.

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Coach, you have one timeout left", is a courtesy often extended by officials to coaches, when, by rule, officials should only be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout. If there is any miscommunication, or mistake, involving the table crew reporting remaining timeouts, then the officials, by rule, need to stay out of the conversation. Let the coaches, and table crew, communicate about remaining timeouts, other than when a team has been granted its final allowable timeout, which by rule, is required to be reported to the coach by the officials.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Coach, you have one timeout left", is a courtesy often extended by officials to coaches, when, by rule, officials should only be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout. If there is any miscommunication, or mistake, involving the table crew reporting remaining timeouts, then the officials, by rule, need to stay out of the conversation. Let the coaches, and table crew, communicate about remaining timeouts, other than when a team has been granted its final allowable timeout, which by rule, is required to be reported to the coach by the officials.

What rule would that be? There is a rule that they must tell coaches when they are out, but what rule prevents them from being involved otherwise?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

What rule would that be?

The rule that says that officials should be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The rule that says that officials should be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout.

The simplicity of the verbiage used in 5-7-11 - "The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This includes: . . . Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out." - does not imply nor expressly preclude any other action, such as the courtesy of informing a team regarding the time-outs still available, at a point in the game before a team has used its last time-out.

There are many actions taken by game officials which are not expressly dictated in the rules. And, many times, here on this forum, the statement has been used, "If it isn't illegal, it must be legal." - or other similar phrases.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

What rule would that be? There is a rule that they must tell coaches when they are out, but what rule prevents them from being involved otherwise?

By rule it's the ONLY time we should notify the coaches how many time-outs they have. What is the purpose of doing it any other time? We always say ACs need to know their role and place in the game, so why is it alright for us to intrude on their territory?

[BoomerSooner]

Just because I haven't seen it posted yet, by rule 5-11-6, we shall grant requested time outs even if in excess of the allotted number of time outs (assuming the situation allows for the granting of a timeout, i.e. not in possession, prior to the replacement of a disqualified player, etc).

I was trained that it isn't our place to prevent the mistake of requesting a time out in excess of the allotted number beyond the specified duty of notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final time out. I was trained that because the rule doesn't specify which team's head coach is to be notified that both head coaches should be notified when a team uses its final time out. (2-7-11: Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out".

To SCL's question, there isn't a rule that prohibits an official from communicating this information other than the rule of KISS. I don't want to be the guy that mistakenly tells a coach he has X number of time outs remaining only to find out that it was actually X-1 and have him go nuts when he finds out the correct information, especially if it were to be at the expense of a technical foul.

For the record, my procedure when one team uses its final time out is to notify the coach that is out of time outs then notify the other coach that the opposing team is out of time outs. I do not provide any information concerning number of time outs for the team that didn't just use its final time out. That is for the coach and table to track.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Why do you need to be aware when a team gets down to one?

So I'm not asking the coach which type of TO he wants.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Adam

So I'm not asking the coach which type of TO he wants.

The guy who posted that said it was a brain fart and he meant when it gets down to zero not one.

And I said several times that it is useful to know if he has a 30 left. But that's different than knowing the overall number of TOs left, which many officials feel the need to do and communicate to coaches and partners for whatever reason.