Free throw violation?

[Adam]

There is no basis for calling the violation on A2 and canceling the FT. There's precedent for ignoring the violation (say B2 had pushed A2 across the 3 pt line after A1's shooting motion had begun) when it's caused by a foul, but there's no precedent for charging the fouling player for a violation here.

You are correct, this should have been a TC foul, thus no FTs.

Players jockey for position all the time by pushing each other around, so I see nothing that indicates this should have been an intentional foul.

[OKREF]

Can you have a TC foul on a free throw? I don't think there is team control on a free throw is there?

I think I would most likely have an intentional foul. However with an intentional foul the resumption of play is point of interruption. Since that was at the second free throw wouldn't you shoot the intentional fouls first, then resume play with A's second free throw?

[Adam]

Player Control exists, thus team control.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Adam

Player Control exists, thus team control.

A free throw is the exception to this rule. It is actually described in rule 11. During a free throw, the officiating crew is in control of the ball at all times.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Can you have a TC foul on a free throw? I don't think there is team control on a free throw is there?

I think I would most likely have an intentional foul. However with an intentional foul the resumption of play is point of interruption. Since that was at the second free throw wouldn't you shoot the intentional fouls first, then resume play with A's second free throw?

the player is holding a "live" ball--player and team control

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BigCat

the player is holding a "live" ball-...

If that's the case. If the free throw try has been released (the OP says "...is shooting...", so there's some ambiguity, there), then, just to be totally clear, this would no longer be a team control foul, and free throws could be shot for it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

If that's the case. If the free throw try has been released (the OP says "...is shooting...", so there's some ambiguity, there), then, just to be totally clear, this would no longer be a team control foul, and free throws could be shot for it.

Read it again.
"Is holding" follows "is shooting".

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

Read it again.
"Is holding" follows "is shooting".

thank you Adam. Hawkeye take a lap...

[David B]

Thanks for the info - I don't think intentional is in order either as to me its no different than two guys jockeying for position on the lane and we aren't going to call that an intentional foul without it being something very obvious.

So basically we do have team control thus we clear the lane, administer the second FT for A1 and then give B the ball for the team control foul.

Thanks so much
David

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BigCat

thank you Adam. Hawkeye take a lap...

Welp. Derp. I'll do some mental push-ups instead. I save running for games.

[Valley Man]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I think I would most likely have an intentional foul. However with an intentional foul the resumption of play is point of interruption. Since that was at the second free throw wouldn't you shoot the intentional fouls first, then resume play with A's second free throw?

Intentional foul is spot nearest the foul (not POI) and it is possession of the ball.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

Player Control exists, thus team control.

Originally Posted by Valley Man

Intentional foul is spot nearest the foul (not POI) and it is possession of the ball.

Yeah, you guys are right.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Can you have a TC foul on a free throw? I don't think there is team control on a free throw is there?

I think I would most likely have an intentional foul. However with an intentional foul the resumption of play is point of interruption. Since that was at the second free throw wouldn't you shoot the intentional fouls first, then resume play with A's second free throw?

POI would apply to say double unsporting T here. So A shoots the second FT with the lanes occupied.

[johnny d]

For those who don't know, rule 11 is the rule that allows officials that don't know what the hell they are doing to continue making shit up as they go along. It is also the rule that allows officials to be convinced that they should call a violation on the shooting team, and disallow the second free throw for A1.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by David B

Play A1 shooting second of two free throws and is holding the ball when player A2 who is behind the three point line shoves B2 who is beside him and falls into the area which would be a violation.

Originally Posted by Adam

You are correct, this should have been a TC foul, thus no FTs.

Players jockey for position all the time by pushing each other around, so I see nothing that indicates this should have been an intentional foul.

While I understand on the lane, I don't think there's much jockeying for position on the 3 point line. Plus if it was a shove, maybe you HTBT, but this sounds like an intentional, not TC. I think I shoot the FT lanes cleared, then shoot the intentional at the other end lanes cleared, and finally inbound on the sideline closest to where the foul occurred.