Free throw good, foul on teammate during flight

[RefLarry]

Both teams are in the bonus. A1 releases the ball on the front end of free throw from a common foul. While the ball is in flight A2 fouls B1. The ball goes in the basket.
Count the free throw. Clear the lane for A1 to shoot bonus free throw? Go to the other end for B1 to shoot one and one.

Does that sound correct?

[frezer11]

Correct

[HokiePaul]

If the foul was on B1 fouling A2, would you clear the lane for A1's 2nd shot, then let the players back on the line for A2's shots. Or do the players remain on the line for A1's last shot and then for A2's.

If it happened to me, I would probably clear the lane, but as I'm thinking about it, I realized that would just be a guess.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

If the foul was on B1 fouling A2, would you clear the lane for A1's 2nd shot, then let the players back on the line for A2's shots. Or do the players remain on the line for A1's last shot and then for A2's.

If it happened to me, I would probably clear the lane, but as I'm thinking about it, I realized that would just be a guess.

You're right.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You're right.

Clear lane for any single or multiple throw in which the ball will become dead when the final free throw ends.

The FTs for A2 are considered a separate single or multiple throw (depending on the bonus). If this was your intuition, it's why it was correct.

[La Rikardo]

This is a false double foul situation, as there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the clock is started following the first. Penalties are administered in the order the fouls occur and the ball is put in play according to the penalty for the second foul.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

This is a false double foul situation, as there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the clock is started following the first. Penalties are administered in the order the fouls occur and the ball is put in play according to the penalty for the second foul.

Yes. Or in HokiePaul's case, a false multiple foul. Same end result in terms of putting the ball in play according to the penalty for the second foul (because in NFHS, all penalties are administered in the order in which they occur).

[bas2456]

The same situation as the OP came up in my game today. Looks like we got it wrong as we counted the first FT but did not allow the second FT of the initial sequence.

Can anyone find and/or quote a case play? I can't seem to find one in the current book.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bas2456

The same situation as the OP came up in my game today. Looks like we got it wrong as we counted the first FT but did not allow the second FT of the initial sequence.

Can anyone find and/or quote a case play? I can't seem to find one in the current book.

You don't need a case play. What scenario allows you to rescind a legally awarded FT? (it's rhetorical, the answer is none).

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by deecee

You don't need a case play. What scenario allows you to rescind a legally awarded FT? (it's rhetorical, the answer is none).

Thank you. My question stands though.


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[Altor]

It's not a case play, but...

Originally Posted by Rule 10 Penalties Summary

7. In case of a false double foul or a false multiple foul, each foul carries its own penalty.

As deecee said, nothing tells you to cancel or rescind the penalty in this situation.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Thank you. My question stands though.


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5.6.2h is similar but not same. A is winning 61 to 60 and B fouls A1 in ACT of shooting as time expires. A coach runs/screams at referees. T called.

A will now shoot 2 FTs for the shooting foul by B1. (they aren't taken away by the idiot coach foul). The play is in the book to show game isnt over etc til officials leave floor. If coach A doesnt act like idiot we report the foul and leave. Dont shoot the FTs. It does answer your question a bit...you dont cancel any FTs because that team commits a foul. Finish penalizing the first and then move to the next one.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Thank you. My question stands though.


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You're not going to find one. What do you do after the first of 2 FT's the coach for the team shooting the FT's comments that your officiating skill is similar to bovine excrement? Just because it was a player committing a foul doesn't change that we adjudicate in the order things happen to completion.

In reality (I am guessing this was either a lower level game or a girls game) because I know the ball is live during the FT but this just doesn't happen. In reality the first time this contact happens it's ignored unless it's an intentional or flagrant, and the kid would be told to cut that crap off. This is also all prevented when the lead is assertive in his FT mechanics.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by deecee

In reality (I am guessing this was either a lower level game or a girls game) because I know the ball is live during the FT but this just doesn't happen. In reality the first time this contact happens it's ignored unless it's an intentional or flagrant, and the kid would be told to cut that crap off. This is also all prevented when the lead is assertive in his FT mechanics.

Shouldn't matter what level of ball it was. The fact is that a foul happened while the ball is in flight. A2 displaced B1 to create a clear advantage for a potential rebound. Not something I think can be ignored.

The lead (me, in this situation) can say "Go in straight up" or whatever I damn well please until I'm blue in the face...we all know that they don't always listen to what we say.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Shouldn't matter what level of ball it was.

You can think this all you like it doesn't make it true. Neither does calling a displacement foul on the first of 2 FT's. It better have been pretty egregious to make this call IMO. I would have had a chat with the player in the second lane space and if it happened again then I would make the call. But no way in hell, unless intentional or flagrant am I calling this on the FIRST of 2 FT's.

The only thing it will illustrate is how well you know the rules (or don't) when you adjudicate all the action after you call the foul. I will also mention that as much as we are being asked to call the displacement of players in the lane on a FT the expectation is usually on a miss, or that the displacement is of the egregious type. The last thing everyone/anyone (coaches, assignors and partners) wants is a bunch of displacement fouls on made baskets.