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Old Mon Oct 11, 2004, 07:46pm
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NCAA Men`s rules. While A-4`s shot attempt is in flight, B-4 and A-4 commit a double personal foul. The try is successful. How shall the game resume?
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Old Mon Oct 11, 2004, 08:29pm
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I'm thinking AP - double foul while neither team has control.

Anyone else?
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Old Mon Oct 11, 2004, 09:33pm
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All double fouls are resumed by giving the ball back to the team in control. In this case, since Team B will have control after A4's try is successful, you count the basket and award the ball to Team B for a throw-in anywhere along the endline.
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Old Mon Oct 11, 2004, 10:11pm
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Now to tweak this a bit, NFHS rules, A1 is in the act of shooting but hasn't released the ball yet. A2 and B2 are involved in a double foul situation. Is the ball dead immediately or does continuous motion apply??
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Old Mon Oct 11, 2004, 10:52pm
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Hmmmm....

So what if the shot doesn't go in?
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Old Mon Oct 11, 2004, 11:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
Now to tweak this a bit, NFHS rules, A1 is in the act of shooting but hasn't released the ball yet. A2 and B2 are involved in a double foul situation. Is the ball dead immediately or does continuous motion apply??
A double foul causes the ball to become dead immediately, if the ball is not yet in flight. Continuous motion does not apply to double fouls only to personal or technical fouls.
6.7 Comment "Continuous motion is of significance only when there is a personal or technical foul by B after the trying or tapping motion by A1 is started and before the ball is in flight."

However, if the ball IS in flight when a double foul occurs, it does NOT cause the ball to become dead.
If the try is successful, the goal is scored and play is resumed with an AP throw-in from the OOB spot nearest the double foul. See 4.19.7 Sit C.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Oct 12th, 2004 at 07:09 AM]
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Old Mon Oct 11, 2004, 11:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Hmmmm....

So what if the shot doesn't go in?
Obviously, you have to use the arrow.
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 05:37am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
All double fouls are resumed by giving the ball back to the team in control. In this case, since Team B will have control after A4's try is successful, you count the basket and award the ball to Team B for a throw-in anywhere along the endline.
Chuck, I think you missed this one, unless they've changed things for this year. Look at the 04 rulebook after Rule 10-24, which says you go to the arrow since there's no team control at the time of the double foul:

A.R. 26. A1 shoots and while the ball is in the air, the shot-clock horn sounds to indicate the end of the shot clock period. While the ball is in the air, the official calls a double foul on A2 and B2. (a) The try is successful; RULING: The official shall wait to see what happens to the try. The ball does not become dead until the try in flight ends. In (a) the goal shall count, the alternating-possession arrow shall be used to determine which team gains possession of the ball for a throw-in nearest to the spot where the double foul occurred. The shot clock shall be reset.
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 08:44am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
A double foul causes the ball to become dead immediately, if the ball is not yet in flight. Continuous motion does not apply to double fouls only to personal or technical fouls.
6.7 Comment "Continuous motion is of significance only when there is a personal or technical foul by B after the trying or tapping motion by A1 is started and before the ball is in flight."

[Edited by Nevadaref on Oct 12th, 2004 at 07:09 AM]
Where does it say that continuous motion does not apply to double personal fouls? I think the situation you quote is simply to illustrate that a double personal foul is not a player control foul. Is there anywhere else this is mentioned?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay R
NCAA Men`s rules. While A-4`s shot attempt is in flight, B-4 and A-4 commit a double personal foul. The try is successful. How shall the game resume?
I think the situation is similar to that in the NCAA rule book:
A.R. 26. A1 shoots and while the ball is in the air, the shot-clock horn sounds to indicate
the end of the shot clock period. While the ball is in the air, the official calls a double foul
on A2 and B2. (a) The try is successful; (b) the try is unsuccessful but hits the ring/flange;
or (c) the try is unsuccessful and does not hit the ring/flange. RULING: The official shall
wait to see what happens to the try. The ball does not become dead until the try in flight
ends. In (a) the goal shall count, the alternating-possession arrow shall be used to deter-mine
which team gains possession of the ball for a throw-in nearest to the spot where the
double foul occurred. The shot clock shall be reset. In (b) the alternating-possession
arrow shall be used as in (a) and the shot clock shall be reset. In (c) the alternating-pos-session
arrow shall be used and the shot clock shall be reset even though a shot-clock
violation occurred. The double foul takes precedence and the ball shall be awarded for a
throw-in with the use of the alternating-possession arrow.
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 08:50am
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i have to agree with jim

continuous motion is used if you have a personal or technical, so it would be used if you have a double personal too!
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 09:09am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lotto
Chuck, I think you missed this one, unless they've changed things for this year.
We had a discussion of this last year, b/c of the NCAA test. There were two questions that were almost identical. Try in the air and (a) double personal foul is called or (b) double technical foul is called. In both questions the try was successful.

In the first case, the correct answer was to give the ball to B. In the second case, the correct answer was to go to the arrow. I didn't understand why there was a difference and we talked it out a little. Maybe somebody can find the thread; I looked last night and couldn't find it.

In any case, this year, ALL double fouls go back to the team in control. So whether it's double personals or double Ts, you'd give the ball to the non-scoring team and let them run the endline.
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 09:28am
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Well, I may have to eat some crow on this one. I just went to the NCAA site and looked at the '05 rulebook (I don't get mine til Sunday). I looked through Rule 10 and the Summary of Penalties. Double Ts are still listed as going to the POI. I thought for sure that I had read that they were changing that to be the same as double personals.

And that makes me question my interpretation of the original play. Maybe I had it backwards: go to the arrow for personals and give possession after the Ts. Bob?


[Edited by ChuckElias on Oct 12th, 2004 at 10:38 AM]
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 01:35pm
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Chuck, I just downloaded the 2005 NCAA rule book (thanks for letting me know it's up on the web site!). They haven't changed the approved ruling that I cited above, which clearly indicates that in the case of a double personal foul with the ball in flight, you go to the arrow. (The numbering has changed---in the 2005 book, it is now A.R. 25 in Rule 10-24, page BR-154.) It doesn't matter whether the try is successful or not. The reasoning, I believe, is that there is no team control at the time when the fouls occur, which is during the try.
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 01:43pm
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What is the website for NCAA RULEBOOK '05

THANKS IN ADVANCE
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 01:53pm
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http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/20...ball_rules.pdf
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